harryforreal

Will do, Hair2012.

I think these documented photos of meds alone by Dr. Bernstein are pretty remarkable and definitely suggest more consideration should be given to meds - which can always be discontinued. I'm quite sure if I had seen these photos first, I would have tried the meds before the transplant. Maybe meds wouldn't have had any effect, but for sure the transplant I had has caused me no end of problems.

https://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medical-treatment/patient-photos/nggallery/page/1

Oh, yeah, thanks! Look forward to watching it in 2 hours!

I mean, for the hair transplant insecurity, of course...

I forwarded it to my botox doc.

The thing is, sooooooo many women have done botox, I'm inclined to believe it can't really be that much of an impact - unless perhaps one is already prone to alopecia MAYBE? I mean, really, I'm the only guy at the annual party the doc throws for all her clients and potential clients, and I'm sure the # 1 procedure they all get is botox.

It's worth keeping in mind, but I'm not tooooooo worried about it...knock on wood.

Hi, Dr. Bernstein,

Did this patient try finasteride/rogaine before the transplant?

When I look at your photo documentations of medical treatments alone (no surgery), I don't really understand why medical treatment alone isn't automatically the first course of treatment - baring some problem with side effects, or otherwise really extensive advanced hair loss.

It's a very impressive documentation you have created. I quite wish I had seen these photos before I had my own transplant procedure.

https://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medical-treatment/patient-photos/nggallery/page/1

Very interesting. I have received multiple botox injections over the years on the forehead. My hair loss is strictly at the hairline/recession. Can't say that I've ever thought the two might be related.

For what it's worth, I think I first suspected some recession when I was around 26/27 - but I was never quite sure, and even to this day am not sure when I look at older photos - maybe just had a high hairline to begin with. In any case, didn't first try botox until I was 29 or 30.

Yes, f*%k"i,g *#$%.

I was 35-36, and she said she thought I was just imagining a receding hairline. Her specific words were, "Well I'm not going to renew your prescription just because you have a psychological problem".

Hahahaahahhaah.....B&*#*R

I've often thought back to that, and aside from her demeaning attitude, have often thought, "If you thought I had a psychological problem, why didn't you refer me to a mental health specialist?!?"

The S(*# i've been through with this hair transplant!

Mind you, I'm not saying I'm mentally competent...just that she should have provided appropriate medical treatment! ^^

Yeah, when I went back for the second, free procedure the doctor specifically aimed for singles and tried to cherry pick lighter hairs, but still....doubles all the way across!

I just think I have very thick hair in part because my hair follicles must naturally have doubles and triples..or something, I don't know. I don't really get it. But what I do think is there is no point on adding density if the hair color is wrong, the caliber is thick (which I swear seems thicker than native hair in the back) or fair follicles are prone to doubles!

But I appreciate the comments Gillenator.

I think for me the frustration is that it's sooo close to working, it is POSSIBle to transfer hair. But in the end it's an aesthetic failure as a procedure - at least for the results that I was expecting. But for the guys who have been happy with their result I'm glad for them.

But we'll see when I get some hairs electrolyzed if that makes things look better. If the hairs were just lighter, and not so thick, and not so many doubles across the front, then I would be relatively happy I think, even if the density is still a little questionable.

Well it's very hard to tell from that video - looks like an older low definition video. But in general I'm just a bit over this whole transplant process, nape hair, leg hair, whatever. I don't think I would do the leg hair, personally, at least not at this point. Two procedures is enough, and the fact that the hairs don't look right - well, that's what it really comes down to. I mean, if it looked soft and natural, that would be one thing, I'm sure I would do it again, but I can't really justify spending the time, effort, suffering (being locked away while waiting to recover), the redness, the laser treatments to get rid of the redness, the micro needling to smooth the skin, I mean, really....

I just wanted to thicken up the front of my hairline a bit; it was the doctor who suggested lowering the hairline with about 1000 grafts. If I were to do it again, first and foremost I would StAY on propecia (a young, arrogant female doctor in NYC took me off of it when I moved there); then before I tried surgery I would try propecia and rogaine - even if it's not meant for the hairline - before I would EVER consider surgery. FUE seemed like such a simple, easy procedure though with no worries of lifelong medications during my consultation. Hahahahah......

I am lucky in that I have enough naturally thick hair that I can more or less hide the weird hairs on a day to day basis. But pull the hair back and get close, that is a different story. Also I have been using Rogaine on the hairline for the last 5 months, and I THINK it's promoted some softer, finer hairs, but maybe they were already there. Not sure. But still, now I would try it before surgery.

In any event, I will let you know about the electrolysis - the lady called and requested that we reschedule because she was sick, so probably in the next couple of weeks, though I don't want to have some strange red marks on New Years Eve, so may have to wait until afterwards!

Looks very nice. Would love to see some close ups of your hairline, especially in where one can see the hair exiting the skin to see how the scalp looks.

So here's what I see when I look at photo #1.

1) First and foremost are the darker, thicker transplanted hairs at the front on the left side of the hair line.

2) What I assume are native hairs at the very center tip - they are soft, and wispy and have no "collar" around the hair shaft where the hair exits the skin like other obvious transplanted hairs in the photo.

3) Obviously a lack of density throughout.

4) Collaring around transplanted hairs.

My question is how does one create a soft, natural hairline other than simply adding density? Hairs coming from the back of the head presumably are thicker and darker than native hairs at the front of the hairline. In the end this seems to me to be where the ability to transplant hair successfully ultimately fails to imitate successfully nature. That's not to say a hair transplant can't look good standing a couple feet back, but it seems to me that one can always be able to tell upon close inspection.

Also I would like to see this patient's hairline up close after the procedure, not just a top down view.

But overall an improvement to the original procedure.

I would say no. If it has, it really isn't satisfactory.

There are actually 3 problems; it is not simply an issue of thickness.

1) FIRST AND FOREMOST I would say is the hair color - which is very dark. If you look at my photos in my profile, you will see that the transplanted hairs on top are significantly darker than on the side.

2) Thickness. The darker, thicker hairs at the front of the hairline just look off. I mean, if they had been lighter or the same color as the hair on the sides maybe it wouldn't be such an issue; or maybe if they had been as thin as the hair on the sides maybe it wouldn't be such an issue in spite of the the darker color.

But combine the darker color with thicker diameter, and it just looks a bit strange, especially when other hairs behind and around the transplanted hairs are lighter and thinner.

3) Numerous doubles in the hairline just add to the strangeness of it all. You end up with a dark, thick "tree trunk" at the front of your hairline.

Honestly, at times it looks like black surgical stitches - especially the doubles. It also depends on lighting. Sometimes it looks worse than others, other times, it's not so noticeable depending on the lighting.

On top of that, the redness that persisted until I had 2 V-Beam treatments last spring just added further strangeness to it all.

Now that the redness has finally left after the V-Beam treatments, the eye isn't quite so drawn to the hairline anymore - though 2 weeks ago a young female colleague took a perplexed double look at my hairline twice while I was speaking to her. I moved in a bit closer and spoke just a bit louder to draw her attention back to my face, and then ended the conversation before retreating back to my office area where I proceeded to "smooth" the hairline out and place it in such a way that it might not attract further scrutiny.

I think the laser can help some. But again, I combined the micro-needle procedure with the laser procedure. I actually did the micro-needle first, and saw very impressive improvement. Then had the 2 V-Beam laser treatments done.

But if you are worried about the micro-needle procedure (and I don't believe it is the same thing as a derma-roller), do the laser first. At the very least it will reduce the redness. The V-Beam laser really made a difference in terms of the redness. Prior to the B-Veam, I had tried aloe vera gel, also a topical steroid cream, also the original hair transplant doctor gave me injections of kenalog into my scalp in an attempt to reduct the redness! The only thing that helped was the V-Beam laser. FIVE years of redness!!! Finally gone thanks to that V-Beam laser.

I really can't emphasize enough what a difference the V-Beam and micro-needling did to improve my skin.

I paid around $200 for each V-Beam treatment ($400 total) and $250 for the micro needle, so the price was very good for significant improvement. Really, before I had these treatments it was 5 years of misery.

I went from from a very active social life to nothing after the hair transplant. I am so grateful for the V-Beam and micro needle treatments.

Tuesday I have my first electrolysis appointment, where I will target 2 low hairs as an experiment: 1 which is black and thick, and another that is a double with 1 black, thick hair and 1 light, fine hair.

Well don't explode, Sam.

I really think you should consult first with a V-Beam expert. The redness definitely draws people's attention because it's different from the rest of the skin, and as I said, I had great results from it. You DO have to shave your head down for the V-Beam treatment so the laser can reach the skin unobstructed by the hair, but the hair starts to grow back immediately after treatment as the laser doesn't affect the hair follicles, only the redness in the skin. The area turns black and blue for 3-5 days afterwards, but then starts to lighten up. After several weeks, I was very happy with the results after only 1 treatment!

https://www.advdermatology.com/vbeam---pages-67.php

When it comes to your theory:

I believe that the hair structure (thickness, form and color) depends primarily on the hair's genetic information, not on the place it has been planted.

Yeah, I think that's the predominant theory; however, I have plucked the hairs in the front out and plucked hairs randomly from the back, and repeatedly the transplanted hairs look much thicker and darker than native hairs from the back. Sometimes I wonder if the graft could have been damaged during the transplant process...but I'm not sure why that would make it thicker and darker.

Well, anyway, I agree that your side looks very odd. To me, though, the dominant issue isn't necessarily the direction - though I do get your concern as I have the same concerns, but rather the thickness and darkness. I mean, if the transplanted hairs were fine and lighter, the direction might not look so odd. However, when it looks like beard hair growing along your temple, then it looks quite strange I think. Certainly in my case I have found that to be the biggest issue. I have some finer lighter hairs, but honestly one doesn't notice them because the darker hairs make the lighter hairs "invisible" in that the eye doesn't see the lighter hair; rather, the eye notices a "gap" between the darker hairs, and so I find that the transplant actually exaggerates a thinning look, aside from the bizarre, pluggy look of doubles and triples in the front.

Well, Tuesday I have my first electrolysis appointment, so we'll see how that goes.

But good luck to you, "TheLook". I would really like to hear how Dr. Bisanga would address the difference in hair color and diameter, though I can probably already guess: "FUE some finer hairs." Which is what I was told when I went back to "soften" the hairline. But they don't really look any finer, and the newer ones still came in as doubles all across the front!

Dr Umar uses nape and leg hair to soften hair in the hairline. He brings it forward slightly too.

I have been told that nape hair is problematic - I don't know about leg hair. But I would like to see some examples.

I did the micro-needle treatment before I did the V-Beam laser treatment. The micro-needle treatment really helped a lot with the texture.

I also wonder because the transplanted hair follicles are so much thicker than native hairs, if that causes the skin to not only look bumpier, but also to actually be bumpier. For example, the hairs on the eyebrows are much finer, so these hairs do not need such a large opening to exit the skin. But thicker hairs need more of an opening, so they disturb the skin more when exiting maybe?

The hairs that you had electrolysis on that are finer now, do these hairs look less bumpy at the skin since the electrolysis?

I've been plucking for 3 years now at least. Over 5 years since the original H.T. How long does it take? I

Next step for me is electrolysis in a couple weeks.

I am glad to know about the electrolysis that you tried. Did it leave any scar marks?

It seems to me that electrolysis would be the least likely to leave scar marks in terms of removal. Moreover, if I could soften the hairs, it would be nice to keep some after going through all of this to transplant them!

For me I also want the hairs to be lighter in color - the color of the transplanted hairs is much darker than the native hairs I still have at the front of the hair line.

Is derma rolling the same thing as micro needling?

My doctor used The Eclipse MicroPen. According to the company's website, the MicroPen is different in someways from dermal rollers. Also I wonder if the micro needles are smaller in size than dermal rollers. From the company's website:

How Is MicroPen® Different From Dermal Needling Rollers?

 

Automated micro-needling devices move in a vertical direction for better precision when treating the skin. Unlike Automated Micro-needling the roller does not create a precise vertical action.

 

The lack of precision can contribute to greater discomfort and inconsistent effects to the skin.

and

Safety First. The Eclipse MicroPen® is inherently safer than other products, such as dermal rollers.

What is Automated Micro-Needling? - Eclipse MicroPen

The hair is coarse and shorter there and transplanted hairs can come in coarser and darker and more wirey and will take time to cycle and refine and it can be less of an issue on a hair line or elsewhere but more of an issue on temples and for some as said this is the case while the transplanted hair softens. When short the hair will also have a curl and can be wirey and go in several directions naturally, aside from the angles and direction of the transplant. Time is needed for it to relax but it can be an issue while doing so.

I would like the BHR clinic representative to respond to my question above, if possible. I just wonder about the ability to make transplanted hairs really match the softer, native hairs in the front. Je suis frequentement en Europe, et j'ai pensee de venir au clinic BHR avant. Mais...s'il n'est pas possible de fabriquer, de creer un similarite entre les deux, je ne vois pas un raison d'arreter chez vous.

... typically it takes 18 months for hair to fully mature and any frizz to settle. At this point it has been nearly 18 months if your temporal peaks don't look any different then I doubt they ever will.

Frizz? What about the fact that the hair is much blacker than the native hair? This is my main concern. Is it blacker because it comes from a different area of the scalp? Or because the transplant process actually changes the hair?

The thing is this: what difference does it make to add further density if transplanting hairs actually permanently changes the both the thickness and color of the hair follicle?

The mantra is always, "Add more density!!!" "More density and it will blend better!!!" "More density and you won't notice the doubles and triples!!!"

But if the hair shaft permanently changes color and becomes permanently thicker in diameter (and we're talking 18 + months here), how does adding MORE thick, black hair at the hairline help to soften the hairline and make it appear more natural when it doesn't match the surrounding hairs?

I'm at 5 years, and the hairs are thicker and darker. How long for the hair to "cycle"???

I should add I actually have looked very closely at Dr. Bisanga's hairlines and considered approaching his clinic for improvement to my own transplant. But in the end, I'm not sure it's an issue of surgeon's technique as much as a simple impossibility with regard to matching hair color and diameter.

Sometimes I wonder if there is more blood supply at the front of the head, and if it's "feeding" these hairs "super" nutrients and making them grow "BIG and STRONG, THICKER and therefore DARKER". Does thicker hair caliber result in darker hair color?

I swear these hairs at the front of my hairline are thicker and darker than any native hairs anywhere else on my head.

What do you think, TheLook? Are these hairs in your temple darker and thicker than any native hairs on the back of your head? Or do you think they are the same as the hairs on the back of your head, but because they have been moved to the front, the contrast between the front native hairs and back native hairs makes them stand out?

Either way, it seems to me that making transplanted hairs from the back match native hairs in the front is quite possibly a technical limitation. Obviously, transplanted hairs can grow; but it doesn't mean it looks natural.

Hi, Sam,

I'm a bit busy today - have to be somewhere shortly, so I'll keep this relatively short.

1) Keep posting. While some may get tired of your threads, think about all the new guys who come to this site having seen only positive bogus marketing materials about hair transplants. Your posts show a reality that clinics never show. I know, because I was like you - thought I'd be walking out with a softer, fuller coiffure in the front. Hahaha......what a joke.

2) After 5 years of redness in the recipient area, I had 2 V-Beam laser treatments of the area, and this significantly reduced the redness - actually, it basically got rid of it (the laser technician had suggested 3 treatments, so the result after only 2 was quite good). Unfortunately, the V-Beam laser does nothing for the black, tree trunks growing out of the front of my head (unlike other lasers, the V-Beam does not affect hair follicles as it targets a different color - specifically the red in the red blood cells...or something like that, I'm no doctor). So I still found myself plucking out these black pubic-like hairs in front, and this some times brings the redness back for a week or so.

2) I also had a micro-needling at a different dermatologist's office done on the recipient area, and that helped a lot with the bumpy texture. I'm looking to have 1 or 2 more to see how much that might further improve the texture.

3) I have my first appointment with a person specializing in electrolysis in 2 weeks to target some of these ugly doubles and dark, black tree trunks at the front of my hairline. Just trying something experimental for the moment - just zap 2 - 3 and see how it looks afterwards.

But I can definitely say the V-Beam made a huge difference. With the redness essentially eliminated, the eye doesn't automatically go the the hairline anymore. Of course, when it DOES go to the hairline, I still get the occasional double take (just happened several days ago at work by a young female fellow employee who was clearly bewildered at the front of my hair).

Anyway, keep posting.

Looks very nice. Is there some bumpy texture in the recipient area (photo # 2)? I only ask because I had bumpy texture in my recipient area, but one session of micro-needling for only $200 to that area did an amazing job of smoothing the skin.

I really think HT surgeons should look into the positive effects of micro-needling after a procedure!

There is no reason to ask a forum about a matter as pressing as a very recent surgery. You paid a lot of money for the services of a doctor - contact your doctor immediately about any concerns. After all, I'm sure no doctor wants one of their surgical outcomes to turn bad, so give them the chance to insure your health and well-being!

Dr. Diep is well regarded on this forum and deservedly so, so this post is not meant to criticize his work but simply to ask for input.

When looking at photos # 9 (pre-op, from above) and # 10 (post-op, from above), it's clear that the transplanted hairs, even after 1 year of growth, are much darker than the native hairs.

There is a clear color difference at the border of the transplanted hairs in the front to the native hairs of the crown.

Do others think the transplanted hairs have changed after being harvested and then implanted? Or were they darker to begin with?

I tried to start a new thread on this, but I can never figure out how to start a new thread