ready4Hair

I know there are differing opinions on whether LLLT grows hair or not, but it seems indisputable from multiple studies that it aids in skin/cell healing after surgery (not specifically hair transplants). I'd like to get a good laser cap for post surgery, if it doesn't help at all I don't mind the expense to try to to get a better result out of a $15k surgery. However I don't want to do anything that could REVERSE gains or hurt the grafts. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I can of course ask the surgeon but so far every one has given me a different opinion whether it grows hair and whether to do pre-surgery ('yes, prepares recipient donor tissue', 'no increases micro-circulation and therefore bleeding') I was looking for anyone with scientific, empirical or anecdotal evidence.

Well I wonder if that was communicated to the patient? In other words 'if we implant 2500 grafts you may lost 800 native hairs in the same area?. In other words, any surgeon actually doing transplantation into existing/diffuse/dense areas should use the utmost precision and caution and not leave anything to chance. I'm not saying the Dr. did or didn't do any of the above but again if you are right about shock-loss and transection risks being so high in these types of cases I hope the Dr. did in fact pay extra special attention to this work. To my eye it does not appear so.

Is that a documented fact (lost 1 existing for 3 implants when implanting into high-density area)?

That is about as damning a critique as one could make without making the slightest judgment; if you can't figure out where TWENTY FIVE HUNDRED grafts were place (left? right? entire front?) and then need to go back and read the labels on the photos to figure out which are pre and post op that should tell us everything we need to know. I agree that the change is not even minimal it is undetectable. I have spent the last few months reviewing various FUE surgeons for my own HT and I can tell you I've seen by now 100s of 2500 FUE cases that either impress me or blow me away with the results and I can't recall one case where I have to wonder which pics are before and which are after. I just went to another FUE site and pulled pics from the first 2500 FUE I could find and this covered more than just hairline. In other words, not a cherry-picked home run just an average 2500 graft result. Not too hard to figure out before or after or notice the grafts in the in-between...

My understanding is it takes 400 grafts or so for temple points. I think I have them to spare (he assessed 4700 to get 'perfect results' for hairline, midline,vertex) and that probably means we can get 5,000. Other Drs. said basically 2500 for hairline and 1000-1500 for the crown/vertex so it seems we are already well over budget so to speak (in a good way). So I might also see if he is willing to do nape hair for the temples points. Yeah I know not 'safe zone' but I am 52, stabilized loss and that has always been off the best areas of my hair (just below safe zone); full, soft, plush.

I wonder if this surgeon just doesn't have the skill however? I"ve seen some great temple work (Dr. Feriduni comes to mind). I am going to in fact ask if we can use some nape hair. I am 52, my loss is stabilized and that is in fact the lushest part of my hair. So if he can build some very soft temples I will do it. I am very clear on the shape I want too which is based not only on my own older temple points but on the ones that catch my eye; The basically match the curvature of the outside of the eyebrow and maintain the same distance as they do (a fingers width or two) and finally when they are more or less above them then proceed straight up or angle back slightly to the hairline. It is what gives such a great frame both sides and top. It is hard to overstate their importance; from the side they reduce the side of the forehead and draw your eye to the face itself, from the front the reduce the rounded look of the head moving backwards and draw a more rectangular box framing the face and where they meet the reduce the look of this unsupported mop of hair or the strange unnatural looking points. It makes sense the temples would match/indicate the top loss and so it only makes sense they mirror it when it is rebuilt.

I think besides the fact many HT surgeons don't offer this is I think many patients don't want or request it And it is why so many HTs look off. The more I look at results the more I aslo don't understand, especially with more advanced hairloss why surgoens dont perform (or patients don't requests) more reasonable hairlines. I know if you are a NW4/5/6 the desire to get a 'full head of hair' is irresistable but it leads ot poor results. IMHO a great HT surgeon would know how to create a great receding hairline. So instead of trying to pull a NW5 hairline to the front and straight, it would make FAR more sense to just rebuild temples and build a nice forelock with some natural recessision. That would frame the face far better and turn somoene from NW5 to NW3 with nice temples to frame from both the front and side, some nice thickness in the forelock and same natural recession (not the razor edged V). I think some smart HT surgeon would learn to specialize in that because some of the results I see that people fawn over here to my eye do NOT look good. Yeah it is a 'head of hair' but not so much better (again IMHO) then the plugs of yore. I have mocked up more than a few results I found here bringing the hairline BACK or receding the sides and then temples in and (again to my eye) looks far far better.

However I did consider Dr. Diep in San Francisco who made it to my short-list of three and expect his name to be mentioned more widely when other people speak of the Big Three in the next 2-3 years.

Oh not flying to see any Doc if that is what you mean, I just use to do the flight on business and lived in San Francisco for a few years.

Thank you. I am less worried about the time factor than the boredom factor. Other than the NY to San Francisco flight and a self-imposed Mad Men marathon on Netflix, I am not good at sitting still for several hours.

Probably a run on them from hairlossnetwork members who read this thread. Dang I should have arranged for a commission from them!

Just curious since I used this once for wisdom teeth and although I was in theory conscious (not sedated) the experience was basically count backwards from 10, I reached 6, next thing I knew I was wheeled into the recovery room with both impacted molars gone. Given how long HT surgery is and the painful stages why wouldn't they do that for HTs? Too long?

Hi I don't offhand BUT you could probably find a local ht clinic/Dr. and ask them if they do a fee-based analysis. I was about to do that with Dr. Bernstein's office here ($185) which would have been much more detailed i am sure (hair calber, donor capacity in each zone, minituraization, etc.) vs what I got but it helped to a degree (sent to Dr. Erdogan). I tried to upload here but the ipad safari browseer somewhat limited, when I get home I will upload their pics. In any event it has to be worth $100-$200 to get a professional analysis and pics to share with these Drs. before you commit and fly to a $10k-$20k HT with only partial information in their hands. My timing was good as I was in the process of setting up appointment so sent the pics to their patient rep (awesome rep named Sevinc) who happened to be in the OR at the time (she apparently also is in room with patients for part of the HT) and she showed them to Dr. Erdogan on her iPad who said my donor was really good.

Oh ok got it. Your vertex /crown looks better than mine and your forelock stronger. 4000 seems a tad excessive but if you have 3k or so left over why not go go for the dense knockout? BTW if you search Hairclub Trichoview you can probably find a locak Hairclub to take pics for you including micriscopy of donor. This could helop any of those docs zero in. I need to figure out how to uplaod here and will do so once I do my pics from that session.

Hi where woukd i fiind the pics? You can pm me too with a link etc. I sent Dr. Lorenzo pics of me with my hairline and templss drawn in, he maded a couple adjustments (mostly angling the temples higher) and said it was doable with 2700 grafts. I am just less of a fan of his hairlines then other people here, to each his own I suppose. Did you actually meet with Dr. Koray (assuming you mean Dr. Erdogan)? As mentioned he reviewed my mock-ups and said possible and then alos looked at the hair/donor/microspocopy pic I had done at Hairclub/Bosley yestereday and said he thought my donor was good. Not sure if this is just a term he uses for marketing purposes for eveyrone or not but he feels with 4700 grafts and my hair loss and donor I will have 'perfect results'. Price was not so much of a consideration as I was budgeting $20k for the whole thing, but dropping the cost from $19k US for 4k grafts to $13 for 4700 was not unwelcome. I can aso fly Business Class for the same price to Turkey, also not unwelcome for a 10 hour flight.

Hi, not at all, I just wasn't sure if 'evidence' meant you thought I was making an accusation against either Dr. which I surely was not, I've been in contact with both, they are both great. The breakdowns you got are pretty much in line what I did (and not coincidentally those were the last three standing for me, Dr. Diep made it to semi-finals) My breakdowns were (in order I got them): Dr. Rahal: 3900 (FUT) for hairline, temples, and zones I guess 3-4 leaving crown/vertex aloine Dr. Diep: 2500 for front only (would not do multi-days so I don't have a good idea of total, say 3500-3900 since most Drs. agree 1000-1500 for crown) Dr. Lorenzo: 3700-4200 which was based on 2700 for the hairline I wanted an then 1000-1500 for crown/vertex Dr Feriduni: 3000-4000 which was for hairline and behind, zones 3 an 4 and part of 5 Dr. Erdogan: 4700 for a 'perfect result', I believe 2700 was for front/mid-scalp 2000 was for 70s cm vertex. Not so sure i care about getting 30 cm sq in my vertex (especially since that would all be 3s and 4s for about 6000 hairs there alone) as i am fine if that looks a little thinning. I'd be just as happy limiting the vertex to 1000 grafts and putting those in the mid-lne so the breakdown would be 2700 hairline/temples, 1000 midline, 1000 vertex. I in fact want to do some nice temple points and bring those forward and by my research that is around 400 grafts and singles at that so maybe even 3000 hairline/temples, 1000 midline, 1000 crown/vertex. Dr. Erdogan does seem to go for home runs and remember he not only goes for a lot of grafts but a lot of 2, 3 and 4 hair ones. In that he is a lot like Dr. Reddy whose results first drew me to FUE; my original thought process after seeing how he cherry-picked high hair FUs was that i'd rather get 7500+ hairs with a 2500 FUE and no scar than 7500 hairs with a 4000 FUT and a scar since in the first case if things went wrong I'd still have good donor left AND no scar. However most of Dr. Reddy's results were 2000=2500 FUEs. As mentioned however, there are clearly two schools of thought; one is to use mainly 1s and 2s for a soft natural result the other is to use 3s and 4s (except for hairline) for a dense one. Dr. Erdogan seems to combine (depending on how you look at it) the best of both worlds. I am not sure of your age but personally I don't know if I'd do huge Dr. Erdogan00 session at 25 and deplete a good part of your donor AND you high hair FUs. It really depends again on age, Norwood pattern and anticipated loss. Given my (erhem) advanced age, I chose (after agonizing deliberation, probably as agonizing for every one else as myself ) Dr. Erdogan. I want a home run. I want one and done. I think 47000-5000 grafts will get me the temples, hairline density and enough coverage in crown to support those as I could possibly want. I do plan on being very active in the hairline design and in requesting if possible a little more 1-2 for the front (soft) and a little more irregular hairline. From all accounts he is quite amenable to discussing exactly what you want before hand with both pictures and drawing different versions until yo and he are both happy. This latter point was critical to me, I don't care if a Drs. posted results are good but he ignores the patient for a large part as I've read some other top surgeons here do.

Simple. Go look at his posted results or patient results and compare the number of grafts to the hair count per grat breakdowns (1,2,3,4). Go to dr Feriduni's site then and do the same math for his FUE. Not only will you a get a clear idea if the different approaches you will see it is intentional; all but one if Dr. Feriduni's 50 or so FUT patients had 3 hair grafts (sone even had 4 hair grafts) yet onky 4 of 18 of his FUE patients (where he can cherry-pick grafts) had 3-hair grafts. I am hardly judging or accusing by saying this (which I mention only because of your use of the term 'evidence') I am simply noticing two very different intentional approaches; Dr. Erdogan prefers high density hairs to get dense results with 1 s reserved for hairline whereas Dr. Feriduni prefers to build softer results with less dense hairs.

this might be perfect: Podillow - The perfect face-down tanning & massage pillow

As I read many of the patient experiences I notice that sleeping the first few nights is difficult; you can't sleep because of the side and back donors and the front recipient. Would bringing a 'prone pillow' http://www.newlifesystems.com/products/prone-pillow-by-oakworks/221-0073-01/?sourcecode=NGOOPF&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&kwid=bingproductads-plaid^19016741633-sku^221+0073+01@ADL4NEWLIFE@ADL10BMC-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^4361564639 help? You could then either sleep face down with no contact and/or face up with little to no area of the head touching.