ready4Hair

I haven't had my FUE yet but can say the very fact you had to take several pics and then outline the area in red might indicate that you are looking far more closely than anyone else will (which we all do I am sure).

Wow, I am hard pressed to find the right words to say thank you for that detailed, caring and considerate response. So I'll just say thank you In terms of having 'made up my mind' that might be true in theory but it was not enough to push me over the top to make the switch. To me Dr. Edrogan's results were almost too good to be true, and I made some assumptions about his clinic vs Dr. Feriduni's. To my mind I ran good risk of ending up at some hair mill that was light years behind Dr. Feriduni's in terms of techs, equipment, commitment and standards. it is one reason why I appreciated your first thread so much (and why that went so far to my making the decision to switch); I've read countless 'I showed up, met the doc, they shaved my head, the shots hurt, they extracted, they inserted, I went to the hotel room and couldn't sleep, my face swelled, the Dr. cleaned my head the next day' that they start to become useless to me (no offense to anyone posting, I am just looking for more information to make a decision). To me the way the clinic operates, the way they care for their patient, the interest the Dr. shows in the patients goals/needs, the procedures they use to figure out the hairline in the first place and the ones they use to extract are all hugely important. If those don't gibe with the posted results to me there is a big red flag which had been my concern with Dr. Erdogan. To anyone who has similar concerns about Dr. Erdogan, I highly recommend you read BetterLate's thread but also take a look at this video: I had the pleasure of watching this video of his facility and an operation start to finish (edited of course ), and then came across your thread. By all accounts, and supporting other threads I've read, his operation is as impressive and dedicated as Dr. Feriduni's as is the time and care he takes with patients before the operation. I don't care how good the surgeon, if he has a perfunctory meeting with the patient and makes the patient's goals almost superfluous to the procedure, I have no interest. I am super glad that he took so much time with you on your hairline and that the techs were also involved and that they apparently then took the time to discuss game plan to try to meet your needs given your donor area. Nothing could be more important to me (well, the ability to implement perhaps which itself is useless if the Dr./Team doesn't care what the patients goals are). The fact that temples were not a new thing for him is also reassuring as I didn't want to press for temples from a Dr. who does not generally do them. Truly the time issue wasn't what I needed to remove to make the decision; it was pretending that ASMED was in Brussels and Dr. Feriduni in Turkey (instead of the reverse) or both were down the block from me. It is easy to get caught up in the romantic notion of being in a quaint city in Brussels in a penthouse suite, wandering the clean streets and having espresso on the cobblestone streets while you heal vs the hustle and bustle of Turkey. One just seems... pristine... and the other does not. (Note: This is in no way a criticism of Istanbul/Turkey as it is on the top of my lists of cities to visit, being acquainted with it's rich history and reports of it's beauty, it just seemed less of a fit for an HT in my mind, other patients have made it clear that even that just isn't so). So removing the 'where' vs the 'when' helped. Heck if I choose Dr. Erdogan I might even go for the month of healing I'd planned in Hassalt after a month in Istanbul (I can work from anywhere with wireless and I'd like to stay away from home until I look decent again, I am considering even doing short sublets via AirBnB in Bruge, Praque, Paris and Amsterdam). In any event, I communicated my concerns to Dr. Feriduni's office to try to get more than 'we'll see when you get here' and let them know I was dedicated to 'one and done' so needed to know if 4k-4.5k was in fact going to happen. I'm not sure how many of my threads or my blog you read but I had a rough rough time from about 39 yo on (lost business, father become ill with long term illness, etc) which basically put my life on hold since then and am finally turning things around and am a few months away from something I worked long and hard on on the side taking off so I can "restart" my life. So not only is this HT very important to me since, as far as I am concerned, I am picking up where I left off at 39, I have no desire to now lose 2 years doing ht/recover/ht/recover. I'd like my ht growth to coincide with everything else in my life taking off, not derailing it. For all intents and purposes I am a man entering my 40s as a successful tech entrepreneur and I want my hair to reflect that. Mainly I need to find a way to get a detailed hair analysis to Dr. Feriduni if I choose to stay with him which could be difficult to do AND keep the date I had open and held. On the other hand, I request ASMED clinic to, under the circumstances, please review my photo-shop mock-ups of my desired hairline and temple reconstruction vs my current hairline to let me know if it was feasible with the 4700 they recommended (I am willing to go to say 5000-5100 to get the add'l 400 needed for temples). I am also in fact interested in seeing if they will do less of a razor straight hairline and do some irregularity/zig-zag like some other clinics as I prefer that look for it's naturalness (I in fact made a little side by side of their post ht vs some other places, and while their work is impeccable and amazing, it is uniformly perfect). In any event not only did Dr. Erdogan review those pictures and agree the mock-ups were do-able and realistic, he also said he'd do a skype to make sure my donor was in fact up to it. Caveat since I don't want them to be inundated with similar requests: he only did so because I'd have to give up my Dr. Feriduni spot (and again I cannot say enough that they made that available to me) to book with Dr. Erdogan so I asked for some extra attention to make sure this decision was the right one. The fact they did so speaks volumes about their customer care, I dare say many clinics would just say show up and we’ll see. I think the fact I am prepared to commit immediately to a high FUE HT helps but also dealing with them with some measure of respect for their time and services no doubt help. I have an appointment tonight at a 'hairmill' which says they do 'Trichoanalysis' using microscopy for prospective patients as a 'scientific' analysis of their condition. Clearly I'll have to sit through a high-pressure 'time share' type pitch afterwards, but if I can use that information and pics to help either Dr. make a final assessment then it is worth it. If that info is not usable, I have fee-based hair analysis with Dr. Bernstein's office in NYC for early March. I think this might be too late to hold Dr. Feriduni but again I am not willing to commit to that appointment without a commitment for at minimum 4k (I'd love to have the ht changed from 3k-4k to 4k-5k) and clearly Dr. Feriduni cannot do that without a detailed and professional analysis. If BOTH clinics say they can do 4k+ with the additional information, I am stumped huh? But as you said it is just two great options. I don't think either decision will be wrong, I am assuming that with Dr. Feriduni I will end up with less density and a softer hairline and with Dr. Edrogan more density and a less natural one (in terms of the exactness of the edges not the line itself). I actually took the time to spreadsheet out the 1/2/3 hair grafts each used for their FUEs, and their approach is night and day; Dr. Feriduni prefers far more 1s and also 2s and sometimes eschews 3s entirely, resulting in about 1.75 hairs per FU, whereas Dr. Erdogan prefers to load up on 3s and 2s and use as far as I can tell, just enough 1s for the hairline resulting in 2.25 and up hair to FU. This can be significant; 4k at 1.75 translates to 7,000 hairs, 4k at 2.25+ translates to 9,000, and 5,000 grafts which I'd end up with at Dr. Edrogan's translates to 11,250 so in the latter case I am looking at 30%-60% more hair transplanted. Dr. Feriduni is on record as saying that he feels 1s and 2s make for the most natural hairlines while I guess Dr. Erdogan's approach is density with 1s to make the edges look soft. Lastly one big deciding factor for me is the difference in extraction processes; Dr. Feriduni has patients lay face down in a massage table which to me (as a person with extreme claustrophobic) seems highly stressful and uncomfortable the thought of my face pressed in that looking at the floor with people injecting and extracting above me does not appeal to me. As highly as people speak of the procedure at his clinic that seems to be a difficult part for everyone. On the other hand as you will see in the video above, Dr. Erdogan does the extraction with the patient in a comfortable semi-reclined position in a raised and padded couch with the patient watching tv on a monitor mounted to the foot of the chair. If all this seems like over-thinking things, well I put this kind of thought into almost everything I do (which has served me well for the project that is about to take off) but even if I didn't this is an expensive and painful invasive surgery that will require months of stress waiting for results and looking pretty horrible which will then affect me for the rest of my life. So I can't imagine going about it any other way.

Ok THAT makes sense. As per my prior reply I could get why he might be upset at the wet/dry pics but this obsession with whether or not the clinic was 'illegally' skirting Turkish zoning/licensing laws to operate and being 'allowed' to remain in business (given their stellar reputation) made no sense until it became clear he might represent an HT Dr. also operating in Turkey.

While I get you and "all the other guys" prefer them to show wet/wet and dry/dry pre-op (as do I) to call doing that 'honest' and the way he is doing it 'dishonest' is plain wrong. I do agree it could be 'misleading' to some, yet as I have said many times I fail to see how you think it is being done in order to deceive. The intra-op pics of grafts clearly shows dense packing and high-skill (as do any videos of his hts if you have bothered to watch) and the post-op dry show tremendous results. On the other note not sure how you are the 'other guys' give a flying f is the business they have is 'legally' within the bounds of Turkish medical regulations or not. Clearly it is a highly state-of-the-art,highly sanitary clinic run by a clearly skilled FUE Surgeon and experienced technicians.What do you know about Turkish Business Law, why do you care if they've found a way to operate outside their 'permitted' practice? Do you think a business making tens of millions of dollars in Turkey for a decade is doing so illegally? Who the F are you to tell a clinic 1/2 way around the world, in a country and culture you know nothing about that they must comply with, zoning/licensing regulations when their own country clearly is allowing to remain in business? What do you care? You sound like some local pompous business official."They may keep their business" if they ... what? Go out of business? Is the Turkish Government saying they must close their clinic? Clearly not, only Grave11dgr (dig two graves etc) is saying so. You are not even a spokesman for an unofficial user group in a different country, you are a user hiding behind a screen name. Demanding that a business in another country adhere to their countries business laws when a) you don't even know they are not and b) their country clearly is allowing them to remain in business. It is just plain WEIRD. Maybe their 'silence' shows they just don't buy that in order to remain in business, they have to jump through hoops that a guy (or "all the guys") on HTN demand. If the wet/dry pics were SUCH an issue people wouldn't bother getting their HTs there when there are such great alternatives. If they did anyway and the wet/dry was hiding a scam, then there would be dozens and 100s of outraged patients on this very board, not an endless stream of happy ones.

Just how long do you think a scam like that could last? At the end of the day he has very happy patients posting of their own accord. Not one let alone 100s of holy shit dr e messed me up posts. I could go on but the only relevant point you have is that it would in fact be more helpful to us (and ultimately him) to post dry dry or wet wet pre op. The only possible 'dark' answers are 1) the patients pics are all fake he hire or Photoshop 2) akt if people that didn't need transplants got 4k ones anyway

So then where are the 100s of patients saying 'crap my hair looks the same after 5000 grafts as it did before? Go copy and paste the before wet and the before after. Should he be doing that? Sure.But given how many happy patients and patient experiences there have been, I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt that he does it to show extend of loss not to try to do mislead.

Can you elect to simply get more single grafts? I notice he uses very few relative to other FUE Drs. like Dr. Feriduni anyway (who routinely uses 700-1100+) so couldn't you simply ask for an additional 400 or so singles (or nape etc)?

That is truly an astounding write-up. Nothing against most of them I read here, but unlike most of them it didn't center around the details of the surgery, shots, etc. but gave a fantastic insight into the experience of being at the clinic in person. I for one am quite grateful as I am considering Dr. Edrogan seriously for an upcoming 4700 graft HT and at first I was turned off by the thought of doing it in Turkey (vs say Belgium) and was concerned about the quality and demeanor of the staff and clinic After reading this thread (and seeing some remarkable videos about the facility and the surgery) those fears have been dispelled; clearly ASMED is on par with any HT facility in the world. In terms of hair design, how much input did you have? For instance I am quite more interested in density up front vs in the vertex, would like some irregularity ala say Dr. Diep vs the straight razor ones the clinic normally does (still outstanding, I just prefer the imperfection) and would like temples and temple points. Did you get a chance to convey your goals to your satisfaction or did you feel rushed? Thanks again

They posted a whole series if wet post pics did you notice?

While I've seen a ton of great results from his clinic, the approach seems somewhat standardized (I hate to say cookie-cutter given his results). Does he do temple poiints? I find those absolutely critical to a successful transplant.

It is comments like that which I've read countless times from patients that made and make Dr. Feriduni my top choice. Every single word I've reead about him, his commitment to his patients, his 'bedside manner', his clinic, his techs and his work make it clear he is just the Dr. you want in your corner. My only issue/concern is is he the one you want in your 4k+ FUE corner? At first I was concerned that Dr. Erdogan was more of a 2nd rate mill with a first rate Dr. but after watching some great vids of his surgeries and techniques and technology I was quite quite impressed; top of the line clinic and procedures. I am leaning towards Dr. Erdogan only because I do not know if Dr. Feriduni can commit to a 4k+ FUE and I don't have any example of his 4k FUE work. Probably the most agonizing last step of this process.

If you look at his breakdowns they are in fact HUGE on 3s and sparse on 1s. He uses 1/2 to 1/3 not only of the ratio but the total 1s Dr. Feriduni does. Dr. Feriduni has been known to say he believes the most natural hts are the 1s and 2s and tries to stay away from 3s and 4s (go see, he has a handful of results with NO 3s). I guess there is a trade off of course. I'd agree that adding some irregularity would help. Often on his work you see a 'halo' or hair around the hairline where more irregularity would help greatly. It WOULD be interesting to see his willingness to customize that a bit for a client.

I don't think his issue is nape hairs; if you take a look at his results he loads up on 3 hair FUs and then 2 hair FUs and has VERY few 1 hair FUs. Compare his breakdown of 1/2/3 vs Dr.Feriduni it is night and day. Often Dr. Feriduni uses NO 3 hair/multiple FUs. and generally is 50/50 on 1 and 2s. Dr. Feriduni uses ~ 33% to 50% 1s, Dr. Erdogan uses 10%-15%. This explains his tremendous yield. So you'd really have to ask him to dial that back or just add say another 500 or so single hair FUs to your hairline to maintain his density AND add the softness. But yes, I totally agree expressing your concerns to any HT surgeon about any of his procedures makes sense.

Hi thanks, pretty much I have done that already: Dr. Feriduni means soft nice hairline, probably not as much coverage/density or grafts and almost negligible possibility of a miss,but probably not huge opportunity for a home run. Possibly I can ask him to do a two day high yield FUE but i haven't seen those from him yet. Dr. Edrogan means crazy # of grafts and coverage, probably good hair line but not as soft edges (unless I can ask for some extra 1s up front), good to great chance for a home run that at my age would be great, but possibly (again due to unknowns) a bigger chance for a fail or not great result. The latter is only because I still have some question marks about him, having not had the chance to extensively research his work and/or uncover bad results or unhappy patients. The worst i can come up with (besides wet vs dry) is that he is too aggressive with younger patients and doesn't take into account future loss but that doesn't apply to me. To date on the other hand I found no bad reviews of Dr. Feriduni's results, manner, clinic or techs. So mostly it is weighing this; would I rather go for higher odds of a knock out result along with higher odds of a 'failure' (which would include a dense but clearly obvious HT) or go for higher odds of a nice result and higher odds of not getting a home run. Clearly only I can determine that, but I started the thread to see if I could uncover any dark secrets or criticisms that might up the odds of a poor result.

There is always this to give him hope: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177134-5-5-month-update-5000-graft-dr-koray-erdogan.html

Hey for what it is worth, check this thread out at slow grower from Dr. Erdogan it might give you hope: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177134-5-5-month-update-5000-graft-dr-koray-erdogan.html

Dr, Edrogan, it appears you load up on 3s and 2s to get more density but do you ever use more 1s/2s on request to try to get a softer hairline? I get your approach, yet some other FUE surgeons insist that 1s and 2s are required to get a nice natural result and 3s and 4s should be avoided. Thoughts?

Man one thing that is clear when you see his posted results; he LOADS up on 3s and 2s.I mean as in 1/2to 2/3 of his grafts are threes. THat is some serious cherry picking. Like Dr. Reddy on steroids. I do like his work but often his hairline looks a little harsh, that could be the explanation. I wonder if one could ask for more 1s and 2s for hairline?

Yeah I saw that, literally the only *possible* negative I've ever seen and again it is 6 months. That could be awesome in another 6.

Ok so leaving out practical things like when and how much, if both were available tomorrow for free and would come to my house with their staff (Dr. Erdogan would have a harder time since he'd need to bring the PRP but that aside) can you think of a good reason to NOT go with Dr. Erdogan? My only good reason for thinking Dr. Feriduni might not be the right choice is everyone I've spoken to says around 4k (Dr. E says almost 5) and I have not seen any 4k FUE from him. Otherwise his results are outstanding. Dr. E has many many outstanding 4+k FUEs. So are there any hidden negatives I am not accounting for?

I think that is called 'in your face'

I've narrowed my FUE down to these two Drs. (yes I know about Dr. Lorenzo, amazing yield, not my type of hairlines per se). I am a NW3v I gues with hair that looks better than it actually is (a good thing).most FUE Drs. agree 2500 to rebuild strong hariline from forelock, temple points, and then 1000-1500 to do zones 3-5. It is hard to not like anything about Dr.Feridun; great yield, super soft and natural hairlines, apparentely impeccable patient interaction and clinic, and so far have not seen one subpar result or heard one negative comment about him, his staff or his clinic. On the other hand I have yet to see a 4k or 4k+ FUE from him. Dr. Edrogan on the other hand seems to specialize in 4k-4.5k FUES with what appear tobe astonishing results (yeah I've seen the wet vs dry not such a concern for me). Does anyone have any concrete fedback on Dr. Edrogan, especially negative? I pretty much know I'll get a good result from Dr. Feriduni, yet probably capped out at under 4k. On the other hand my chances of a home run result seem to be with Dr. Edrogan. Since he is somewhat of an unknown to me that also means a chance of a bad result. So (other than wet v dry pic complaints) does anyone have any useful information on things to be concerned about, or would you think I could safely book at 4700 graft HT with him (his analysis for a 'perfect result') and expect excellent results? One minor plus is that he will be 5000 Euro LESS for 700 more grafts.

I get both sides of the argument here. I'd also imagine if you just show a normal head from above you'd see through in areas, much the way we freak out when we see wet HTs. It might not be perfect from above but if you look at the front and side after pics, for the most part that is how every day people will experience him.

So he wont do more than 2500 at once? By all accounts I need 3k-4k to get the kind of coverage I want/need/

My frontal is similar to yours, I am wondering if he extended the hairiline down from the frontmost hairs you had left or just used that as his starting point?