thanatopsis_awry

Like, unless you made it blatantly clear that you wanted to go undergo multiple operations and obtain very thin density along the way, I fail to see the logic in how someone could proactively recommend 2700 for you. If money is a major concern I understand, but if it isn't there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't at least strive for -- and likely obtain -- more grafts in a single session, hopefully getting you to a point of contentment in one, nice and easy session. Also, even if you *just* focused on your hairline and frontal 1/3rd, you'll need more grafts to bolster "the illusion" since you won't have hair behind for support. I don't think that this can be understated.

Ya, shaving down is never actually going to be a bad thing, which is why every guy should prolly try it at least once. If we could all re-condition ourselves to focus not on our hairloss, but our actual "selves", we'd be better off (perhaps we still end up with the HT, and if so we'll be all the stronger to have taken that route) -- so, shave + invigorated efforts in exercise, hobbies, skills....not an easy road to take, but the risk-reward is pretty excellent.

Astounding and outstanding result. And yet another elite scar to go along with yet another H+W max-session.....

I've never seen it practiced, but I often recco it and think it's wise for a lot of people. Poster "youngsuccess" was the first to ever mention it as far as I know (couple years back).

Prez, I'd agree with Bill, as well,, and the two links he posted are among the best threads around on FUE. If I can make one subjective thought on FUE, which I've found myself thinking more and more of late. First, a statement, followed by some metaphor, and then wrap everything together: FUE has been maligned so horribly by so many (Armani being the figurehead, but certainly not a lone wolf) that it has warped perception and has created conflict when we go to talk about FUE and its yield, and how it compares to strip. We are caught balancing theory with practicality. In theory, FUE's yield should be able to rival strip every step of the way; in practicality, there is a sliding scale that varies surgeon to surgeon on when practicality begins to breaks down theory (i.e. when the limitations of FUE overwhelm the surgeon's capabilities on a given patient). The x-factor is the evolution of hair transplantation, and how these two babies born have developed, and matured. Strip has been taken and it's principles cemented at a truly, ultra-refined level; so much so, that I would say with regard to extraction, harvesting, and yield it's reached a certain 'ne plus ultra', and simply can't reach much higher than that you can currently find with the absolute best. FUE not so, and when there isn't a *gold standard* cemented in its efficacy and so there will be more variability in results, and more confusion from a patient's perspective when evaluating clinics, even amongst the elite. Strip is a mature adult, and you know what he will look like day to day, week to week, month to month, thus knowing what to expect. FUE, however, is a pubescent, fickle child, in a dynamic state of development and maturation. And this boy's adolescence was hijacked by the wrong crowd; resulting in to-be-expected distrust, skepticism, and criticism by what has marked him to date. Yet, this belies the character lurking beneath the surface, character that if nurtured can shine through -- and the true character of FUE has indeed begun to shine through. I would say that FUE's yield will approximate Strip when it is performed by an elite surgeon. In part, this is because the elite surgeon will not fly too close to the sun and allow the fickleness of this pubescent child to catch him off guard and veer him into blindness. I suppose first and foremost I am advocating that you take it upon yourself to do exhaustive research -- research into the links posted above, research into individual clinics -- and determine who these elite FUE practitioners are. This site is certainly an excellent place to go about this process. Remember, FUE is a fickle child still in a state of dynamic change and evolution -- there is marked variability even amongst the best, which makes individualized research paramount, and generalized statements less useful.

I do agree w/ you Jason, actually, pretty much 100%. Honestly, I regret my first post being so "equivocating", impartial, and vague. And I apologize to Baldboy for not speaking my mind, and assuming he was getting FUE in my haste. I'm happy you stepped in with a no bs, blunt truth of the situation. There is hardly ever room for error in a HT, let alone someone as young and advanced as Baldboy. And a 1500 strip recco would indeed scream a huge red flag, and is exactly the type of session and situation I think is a huge culprit in younger guys ending up in a real bind, which you see all too often. Just to add on to what you have said and wisely recommended -- what would you think of Baldboy undergoing an artistic FUE plan to design him a hairline and framework for him to then buzz down? Maximize a modest number of grafts to give him ultimate flexibility for the future, while maximizing the buzzed/shaved look he can enjoy now and going forward.

Great news, Bash! I really look forward to seeing your case documented. 1300 is a nice number, for sure. Congrats on your decision and a smooth road over the most arduous part -- now you just need to summon your patience as the excellence of SMG and your decision shines through over the next year!

If you're going to get a HT....you're basically saying that you will be combating MPB with every graft you have at your disposal and to live with the results and the ultimate outcome, which may not be complete coverage. Vs. living with what you currently have and the continued loss to come. It's a decision I would likely take in your shoes, too, and in a sense it's the one that I've taken. 1500 seems pretty light, but you know your hairloss best; so, if you're confident that 1500 will do the best job to safely satisfy the goals of your first HT, and trust your doc, so be it.

Feller and Shapiro are definitely not the only docs on this forum who do FUE. They are probably the two I would most seriously consider; and I think that you should seriously consider them, though this doesn't necessarily mean you don't consider others, as well. How many you consider is up to you. There is really no perfect fountain to go to and drink out of. Those are the two I'd look into...if you asked me for more my first reaction would be Dr. True and Dr. Gable.

Re: Feller's website quote....he or Spex can say for sure, but I'm virtually positive that that statement and the information behind it is outdated. Dr. Feller indeed does sessions comfortably that far exceed 500 and go upwards of ~2k from what I've seen. His website is pretty dated, AFAIK, so don't necessarily take everything off of it as present-day-truth and a reflection of his actual abilities. An actual consult with Dr. Feller or dialogue with Spex is your best bet to get info on them. Anyways, thx for the props on my HT...the pics in that link are actually even a bit dated and don't reflect the "final" result. It got thicker and the hairs softened and matured a good deal. My most recent pics are in one of the main threads floating around this site. My procedure was strip, btw. No major issues aside from me boozing the night before which caused unnecessary bleeding. All's well that ends well, though. Strip is what it is -- it's really not the worst thing to recover from....moderately painful (at times), and it took 2 weeks before I was training boxing and jiu jitsu again, and going out without a hat without much problem. Shoot me a PM/private message if you ever want to get into anything in greater detail.

Though I haven't seen everything this poster said to you, I'm pretty sure it's the same ol' tale. Someone recently spewed the same garbage on this forum (as happens a lot) and it got swatted down. It gets tiring, and it's difficult because these are by and large traumatized people....but they essentially trying to demonize an entire concept and field (the HT), so as to justify and comfort the poor personal choice *they* themselves made, at the expense of upcoming patients who simply want to arm themselves with as much unbiased and informed information as possible. I suppose I would put it like that, at the end of the day....HTs are often either the best or worst decision one will ever make. You're listening to one side of the coin with that poster. Am I the other side? Perhaps, but I'm not so sure, because I am not proposing that each side is some fait accompli dictated by either *my* side or this guy's side. I'm proposing that if you arm yourself with the requisite research and the right doctor you will invariably gravitate towards my side; those that do not, will invariably gravitate toward the side of the coin that the aforementioned poster unfortunately lies upon.

I would have certainly included H+W in most any list of "top docs", except they don't perform FUE, so.... I had a HT with Dr. Feller, that will be 2years out this January. Other than that, and my 100% pro bono involvement in this community, I have zero affiliation with anything to do with hair restoration, professional or otherwise.

No prob, hairadv....there is only the notion of lower FUE yield because the surgery was hijacked by hacks (Armani, e.g.) and they don't have the skills and wherewithall to produce good yield when they perform. FUE is being un-hijacked by the likes of Dr. Feller, Dr. Shapiro, Dr. Devroye, etc. So, I wouldn't agree that FUE has "worse" yield; certainly, on the larger sessions it likely would, but any of the doctors I just mentioned would not be performing this on you. In the right hands FUE can and likely will produce excellent yield, comparable to strip. I'm just a layman who has spent a good chunk of a few years researching HTs and immersing myself in the field from a non-professional perspective. Don't take what I say as gospel; very little of what I say I would even want to be viewed as such. I mainly intend to propose my own perspective that I myself would honestly follow in your shoes, which you can then cross-examine with your experience and experiences with others -- specifically, that of esteemed doctors, who I would strongly recommend you consult with. Dr. Feller, Dr. Ron Shapiro, Dr. Devroye, and Dr. Bisanga would certainly constitute an example array of "esteemed doctors" whose opinions I would def want.

I wrote out a very pointed reply to pretty much all of the sophistry and agenda above, but it got lost as I wrote it when this thread switched sections. So I'll just say that I don't believe you are on a crusade for 20-somethings so much as you are soaring on a magic carpet to self-righteously besmirch the entire concept of the HT and all things associated with it, trying to comfort your own (poor) personal choices. The reason the vast majority of results on this site are good is because this site cultivates the "best of the best"; if this site cultivated and coddled Armani, Bosley, Joe Hack, and whomever you went to the results posted by patients and clinics alike would not be. It's that simple. And as an FYI, people in their 20s are sacrificing their lives for their country and your freedoms; are protecting and serving the streets *you* walk on; are putting out fires for other peoples' express safety. I'd love to see you spew your sophistry in the face of one of them and let them know how "immature" and "incapable" they are of making a "logical" decision.

Performing a HT on someone 29 is criminal why, exactly?

Indeed, aaron....I was extremely skeptical when first introduced to Dr. Panine, but have been universally impressed since, and agree with you that their documentation is thorough and upper tier in quality.

Bisanga, Feller, Ron Shapiro, Devroye, and Ilter....would probably be the 5 clinics I'd recco investigating into....I say this based upon results I've seen, and the level of transparency and dedication to the craft that I've deduced from my time spent on the forums looking into FUE. For "high graft numbers" Bisanga followed by Ilter probably do the largest sessions -- but that's subjective, and you can find out exactly what each clinic is capable of by talking with them directly. I have some ?'s about Ilter, particularly, but I've seen good work from that clinic and it's been heartily recommended by some esteemed doctors (including Shapiro), so, I'd at least investigate some myself.

Very detailed write-up, though fairly damning to Dr. Feller from a more emotive, subjective standpoint. How did you happen up Dr. Feller and then to Dr. Devroye -- do you live close to either clinic? Either way, I hope your growth is equally as impressive the 2nd time around, and Dr. Devroye does great work so you don't need much hope anyways! I'm actually unfamiliar with the pros (or cons?) of techs using magnification lenses implant the grafts, though I know a few clinics have stated to do so; if anyone knowledgeable in this area wouldn't mind a quick explanation if they pop in.

100%; he's presented some very impressive work in a professional manner, and I have zero reservations about giving a blessing to Dr. Panine's clinic. I only hope that once recommended Dr. Panine continues his level of involvement, as it has definitely been a benefit to the community and potential patients.

I would likely suggest holding back on your 4th until you're more confident emotionally in the process, a bit more mentally abreast of what's involved, and, ideally, totally financially sound for moving forward. How many HTs you can "endure" is really somewhat subjective, and there are many variables, all of which should be taken into account and discussed with by your doctor. How many grafts are you going for? Who's your doc? What's your current hair situation? etcetc

Have you considered FUE?

Like Bill, I'm very happy with my hair transplant, but realize and accept the limitations; though I sometimes might feel the HT was a "cure", like most anything it isn't perfect, and I still deal with the harsh realities of MPB and continued hairloss. Thankfully, I do believe that with the right doctor and strategy *many* sufferers of MPB can get a HT and consider it a positive step in reclaiming their hair and all that goes along with it. This forum is a terrific place to research HTs further, and the doctors capable of being admitted into the Coalition are great places to start your research into specific clinics. Btw, John, you should post some pics, or at least take some for yourself and compare it to your pre-ops. Often, we feel that little progress has been made when in reality quite a lot has gone on (this was the case for me, and Spex often talks about this while posting cases for reference) -- and regardless, at not even 6months out you truly should not be overly concerned about your result as so much can, and likely will, happen.

Just in case my prior post wasn't pointed enough...I actually agree with HairHope, Jotronic, et. al. and think LLLT is a sham and disgrace to be sold to patients with high hopes. It's one thing to offer it for free, as a complimentary gesture of hoping improving one's hair in a truly experimental way, but to be actually sold as a truly viable treatment to a man with sincere, if not desperate hopes, requires a serious explanation on the part of the seller.

Sounds good, Bill. Hopefully, Dr. Harris can find some time to get into increased detail on the forum -- 700 extractions, or grafts, per hour, like Dr. Devroye alluded to, is extremely impressive. I also look forward to Dr. Devroye revealing more information on his prototype as it progresses; with such esteemed Dr's getting more and more involved in FUE it really gives hope that a new, truly progressive era of FUE is here to stay.

Very nice writeup, and I look forward to seeing this grown out. Also, good to know Dr. Panine employ so many beautiful eastern-European women!