thanatopsis_awry

It's not that they are "inconsistent" so much as they are universally bad. FUE is an inherently flawed procedure -- on this forum alone there have been several threads were doctors and experienced patients alike cooly, systematically discussed these flaws. Basically, it revolves around damaging the grafts through forces including traction and torsion. It is because of this that FUE procedures take so long -- this is also why (good) doctors do not perform "mega session FUE" with the frequency and #s of Armani. Helluva a sweet rap to spit, tho -- scarless, less-risky, LATEST BREAKTHROUGH PROCEDURE....targeted at the wave of young guys cruising the internet...ya, it's also the most expensive.... Anyways, as for the some results being "awful" and some being "good"....I personally have only seen "awful"...the better results I have seen have always been cases were one or both of the following is blatantly true: an obscene amount of grafts were used in a relatively small area, and the documentation of before/post-ops/afters was comically bad. I suppose, even in these "better cases", grafts are being squandered either by yield well below The Armani Guarantee and/or simply using up more grafts than a good clinic would need to achieve a smiliar result. Also, even if some results were *truly* good...and I doubt even his best are on par with the results of sound strip clinics...but even if some did produce OK yield....it basically just means his procedure is a game of Russian-Follicular Roulette, and his surgical skills and tools simply SUCK and are dominated by a procedure he can't handle. And, of course, this is to say nothing of the obvious ethics -- or lackthereof -- that exist, and which are *quite* numerous and varied.... EDIT -- 1 more thing...while I do think Armani performs *gross* injustices spawned from extreme greed and a vicious thirst for power...we find a lot of these types in politics and some businesses come to think of it...but he isn't a "butcher" in the historical sense of the word, and for many -- like Stingray -- they will still get to where they want to be....the more fortunate ones prolly just end up w/ 1 botched op while losing $, time and hopes, while wasting some grafts that hopefully they never truly need or even want....but, PGP mentioned cases of real young guys with real aggressive loss getting real "bold" hairlines where a real serious # of grafts got hijacked....this can lead to a legit nightmare that could plague them for life....

Thx Bill, and kaounis -- appreciated! It was harder than I thought to synthesize what I've felt over all this time as the most vital things surrounding a prospective, younger patient approaching the HT. Though, I think much if it applies to pretty much anyone. Clinics/surgeons are quite evolved, this forum is a leader and one of the few, true bastions for patients; so, I really do think HTs are a very viable, excellent (if not ultimate) tool in "curing" baldness (though MPB itself has no cure...yet! ).

This isn't in direct response to anything, per say, so much as it is a summation of thoughts I have had, and from the thoughts others' have had whom I respect (Bill, PleaseGrowPlease, TheEmperor, and various others who any said "Young Guy" should be well aware of ). Young guys sitting on the fence often have the same concerns, the same expectations, and the same questions; yet, even when I give my honest answers to the aforementioned, I sometimes feel there are "stones being left unturned". So, Dear Young Guys, I personally take an aggressive, pro-active approach to HTs -- and getting a HT at a young age is certainly aggressive and pro-active. Yet, for however "aggressive and pro-active" we are there needs to be a simultaneous *increase* in caution and precaution. Ideally, of course, every prospective patient will be fully informed and equally cognizant in their decision, but for Young Guys it is indispensable. PleaseGrowPlease recently classified the decision as one where "It should also be a choice in where you exhaust all means of researching ,and understanding the pros and cons." This is what it boils down to; but it's the exception and not the norm when I see this precept actually boil when Young Guy gets his HT. Generally speaking -- and I'll get more specific in a moment -- you should be able to read this forum for at least a full month while navigating the content, absorbing and digesting it in its entirety, and feel truly confident in your decision while being honest with yourself that you truly *are* confident and not truly -- hazardously -- desperate. It's fine to be desperate; totally understandable, and I myself was. But the desperation is an emotional reaction that needs to be compartmentalized; desperation has likely led you to wanting the HT. Fine, but now is when you need to temper and tame it with icy, cool research and honest analysis. 1.) I Need to Save My Youth ASAP! Life is precious; our youth, particularly. It's reasonable to place a premium on preserving, if not reclaiming, this vital part of your life. I've often said in response to the risk of *getting* a HT that there are serious risks in *not* getting a HT when you are young, too. Stemming from psychological traumas inflicted by others *and* yourself, it can depress the quality of life while also interfering with your actual decisions, actions, and opportunities. MPB can take a devastating toll when it creates a physical anomaly for your age and environment; and with the non-existent empathy society weighs on this phenomena, it doesn't have to be "just in your head" to feel like a social outcast. However, if you do risk a HT -- and it *is* a risk -- you must ensure the result you are *risking for* will actually be a result worth the risk! Taking into account the quality of your donor (how thick, how wavy, how thin, how straight) and the # of grafts to the size of the recipient area you can -- and should -- take the time to develop an accurate likelihood of what your result will be like. This includes seeing pictures from Clinic X of cases mimicking yours, noting the hairstyles, and also talking directly *to* such patients, if not seeing them in the flesh. Will your expectations be met when synthesized with the scarring, the recovery; will baldness still exist that will vex you; is additional loss an imminent possibility, and how will this effect you, which may simply require another procedure, but which again has a risk and recovery period that needs to be included in your *initial* analysis of getting a HT. As well, understand your "end game". Take into account the quality of your donor and your overall donor harvesting #s -- going the route of HTs, can you fight a long-term battle that will leave *you* likely satisfied with the look, or might it be some "Sisyphean Battle" that likely can't end in a victory for *your* expectations and desires. Not necessarily even a dealbreaker if not, but it's yet one more - (or +) that should be weighed. 2.) To Be Accepted; or, just accept yourself(?) This can be tricky; the interplay between "simply" accepting ourselves and the vague but strong instinct to be accepted by others. Ideally, we simply wouldn't feel the need for this HT. And maybe you actually don't! Personally, and I know this to be true for many, we find ourselves in a particularly vulnerable, weakened, uninspired state -- and this can have a snowball effect on our confidence, psyche, and resulting happiness. We look to target the hair, we look to the HT, we hope the HT to solve that woe....but where will be even be standing if it is solved? It's key to not hyper-focus on the hair and the HT. Even with the HT and whatever result it might reap, you may very well still be in a stark state of want. No doubt the hair and the HT is important, but exactly how important is it? Has its importance become self-aggrandized through the "snowball effect"? Maybe, maybe not; but you owe it to yourself to find out and give yourself more information while at the very least improving another facet of your life. This is why I also recommend Young Guy to do any of the following if he already isn't: join a gym, create a vigorous workout regiment, stick to it for at least one month; pick up an enriching hobby (boxing, jiu-jitsu, cooking, yoga etc.); and, finally, buzz your head. It all sounds so simple and mundane. And it kinda is. And often the most simple things are the most basic remedies that are connected to our most vital needs. At the very least: you will be more attractive, be more interesting, feel better, **and** be all the more confident in your decision to go the route of the HT. 3.) Force yourself to be confident(er). Right now. Probably the hardest thing, but the most rewarding if done. This may or may not even effect your decision to get the HT based off of everything I've said or anything else you've read or thought. But it is the most rewarding if done, and is a life-habit worth its weight in gold. Over the backdrop of all the words to come before this, do what you will be doing with increased gusto and confidence; there really is not much more to fear than fear itself. Hairloss wrecks our confidence and zest because it impacts our perceptions of how we will be received, and so hampers our desire to do and to act, which then influences our levels of contentment and "happiness". No matter how true it is (or isn't) that our hairloss will be influencing our treatment by others, we still have ultimate authority. Whether you get a HT or not you will be judged; sometimes by bad people and sometimes badly. And when you do have hairloss, or haven't gotten the "perfect HT", it's actually all the more key to not let the perceptions of some put a leash on you acting for you. Getting a better grip on this now will just make you all the more powerful if you do get that "perfect HT". My 4cents!

The most vital post here is the initial, direct response to UHT, incidentally by Dr. Feller, himself, the meat of which includes: "I am truly sorry that you are not satisfied with your result, it can and does happen, and I know that you are hurting because of it. You want answers, accountability, re-assurance, and most importantly-guidance moving forward. I am always available to offer all of that, but you have to at least identify yourself first in order for me to have the chance." Extremely empathetic and willing -- if not eager -- to help, and wants to know all of the facts ASAP to bring whatever closure can be had. "From the snippets of conversation you said we had back before your surgery in 2006 this was a possibility I was verbally concerned about and explains why I didn't bring the hairline lower as you requested, nor did a super large case. Since you haven't identified yourself to me nor made a complaint directly to me before coming on a public forum I don't have your file which may provide us with some very important information about your particular case." Refers to reasons why I larger case was not performed, and affirms a strong desire to simply get all the facts laid onto the table so the situation can be assessed and responded to in the most honest, effective manner -- **and before ad hom and injurious remarks start getting flung....** "I am not heartless and I am not un-empathetic to your situation, but if you had come to me personally you would have found that I would have offered you a significant discount on a second procedure. I would have done so not because I felt I did anything wrong, I know for a fact that I haven't; but because I know what it's like to be 25 years old, to be losing my hair, and to be tight on money; it would be my pleasure to see that my 'boys' get the very best I can offer." This is interesting. The semantics, that is. It can certainly be construed, if not contorted, and be read as that Dr. Feller is "punishing" the patient and holding a grudge for not coming to before the forum. However, I truly don't believe this to be the case, and the semantics do not deserve to be construed as such. Dr. Feller's reputation in addition to the overarching tone and blatant empathy and care in his post (and that paragraph itself!) reigns supreme. I would bet dollars to donuts that he was simply expressing what he would have -- and would *still* -- offer to the patient, as well as letting him know that he would greatly have preferred the patient to at least talk to him person2person concurrently or before starting this thread. "I think it's inappropriate to have this exchange online in a public forum, but you chose the venue, not I. As I've always said, I have no problem if a 24/7 live broadcast were made from my office covering all my consultations and surgeries. Transparency is a point of pride for me and there is nothing I would tell you in private that I wouldn't tell you in front of the entire HT community." Everything is line and adds up. And, again, you can see why Feller is so emphatic in his desire to have all of the facts laid out onto the table because his reputation, which he greatly prides, is on the line, and "semantics" among many, many other things can be thrown into the lion's den. He believes in himself, believes in his ethics, and wants to protect it by further fulfilling his principle of transparency by knowing who he is dealing with and getting the facts laid out for his *and* the patients' sake(!) "The lines of communication to my office are always open and it is my fervent hope that you will identify yourself and make an appointment to speak to me face to face." The end to his response.

Spex, did you really have to post the pic of that bald, bald man with but a few whispy, vellus hairs in his entire frontal 1/3rd?!?

Man....the thing that strikes me most with the latest set of pics (which are of perfect quality) is how erratic and inconsistent the yield was on the hairline. I agree w/ Hopefull that it even looks like some ridging and pitting in the first pic -- which, fortunately is nonexistent to the naked eye when you style it normally. I'll just say again that you really are an exemplary patient-advocate to take the time to systematically document your case in total honesty, in spite of the route you could have taken. And without a doubt you will soon get a head of hair that would make any man jealous! Amazing to think, though, of those less fortunate....who didn't resist Armani peddling a larger session, a bolder hairline....who had more aggressive MPB....were of a younger age....weaker donor...even worse yield....etc....

He did have a doctor who does strip & FUE (Bisanga) evaluate his procedure and he stated ~30-40% yield. It's obvious beyond reasonable suspicion that Armani is a 100% shit clinic and aside from his "ethics", which have always sucked, his pathetic results are directly because he is performing FUE and like virtually every other doctor in the universe he can't handle the procedure on a level anywhere approximating the quality of strip.

I 3rd not to worry vis a vis Armani....he's a total clown and the evidence of his clownery has been all over the place for a while now if you've been in the right place at the right time. That Wong patient Leeson mentioned is a great example for people going through shockloss, too; he had the most vicious shockloss I've ever seen, but is a showcase for what will inevitably happen when going to a good doc...it'll all grow back sooner rather than later. Your redness and shockloss is on the strong side, but still totally normal. If anything, IMO, the added shockloss and redness looks *less* like an HT and more like some benign sorta allergic reaction!

But hey...Pat's is still only at the third-trimester of his crown procedure and cruising along nicely at like 70% growth 15months out according to Master Armani.....I mean, why even post pics until you are 2 years out and had another procedure to cover the area -- oops...

Thx for sharing and being honest -- you deserve much better, and I'm sure with Bisanga you will get to where you want to be! Plus, as others have said, it's a blessing that your pattern looks pretty solid *and* Armani didn't rape you of "that" many grafts.... That said, this looks like an utterly *typical* and to-be-expected result from Armani....like PGP mentioned, there have been cases were the yield was a lot worse and many more grafts were bludgeoned and "densepacked" () into bold hairlines on younger guys with more aggressive MPB. I've said it before....the "vandalism" on HLH resulting in threads "disappearing" and the ensuing MUZZLE on all things related to Armani -- Re: the results that were finally coming to light by the wave of patients who bit Armani's bait -- was the best thing that could happen to Armani. I don't think he will ever be as strong as he was, but now he simply migrated to another forum were he is in cahoots w/ the owner and running the same scam, spitting the same rap....shameful...

Atticus and SoFarSoDonkey are total sleaze...worse than any of Armani's minions, IMO...I don't have much of an opinion on Umar aside from equal parts suspicion and intrigue, but clowns like those two don't speak well for he and his practice *at all*.... But ya, I agree -- in part, because Armani made himself Public Enemy #1 it has shielded other practices (e.g. Umar) to a degree.

Some excellent -- clear, important -- questions have been posed. Someone (NOT ME NOT ME) should compile and post a "master list", free from anything remotely incendiary or provoking, and make it simple for Armani/Pats to answer to the best of their honest ability, definitively; or, if they choose to neglect answering such questions, quote (one of) their past responses .... The only downside to Armani Information threads is that the true, Grade-A meat often gets clouded, or lost amidst the shuffle...and whoever is on the wrong side in this very stark debate gets extra ammo to bob and weave through the truth, which doesn't help those new to the discussion or those sitting on the fence.

Wantego -- they are excellent questions, and I think PGP agrees, but was simply saying that they (unfortunately) can't be discussed due to the legal dispute that went on.

I think you're totally fine, too. I didn't think I had much if any growth at 4months, but around month 5 the sweet locks started to gush forth, and I ended up being a very quick-grower.

It's pretty ironic...but if Pat's had the greenlight to post documentation of Armani's results here...it would be the ultimate act of self-ownage (they would be systematically and objectively critiqued). And, on the flip side, HLH's swift demise and divorce w/ Armani (deleted, locked, banned threads) was the ultimate blessing in "disguise".

Dr. Umar may very well be the most intriuging doc out there. Between his BHT, mega-session FUE, and confidence in going outside of the "traditional safezone" he represents a tremendous amount of hope to many, many people. If he can deliver in these areas it equals a *major* breakthrough -- overall donor harvesting, quality of donor harvesting, and the option of eschewing a strip procedure altogether. Apparently, he's created a rotary device to do the extractions, which, IMO, is prolly a necessity in truly doing mega-session FUE consistently. But if he doesn't want to dislose any info on it, which it seems he does not, it really is honest and transparent people like Abe who will pave the way for more. My 2 -- err, 4 cents. Keep up the good updates!

Very few (if any) veterans here are anti-FUE; they (myself included) just vehemently oppose doctors who deliver inferior results -- especially inferior results that are stemming from outrageous self-promotion and hype. I'm not singling out Umar, either, as it's basically been a fight vs. Armani trying to become the Bosley of FUE while royally screwing an ocean of young guys. Right now, in this era, and particularly in the sector of information forums, FUE may very well be the public's enemy #1. It is not the clear as day butchers of years past who gave deformative plugs that are the main foes standing against patients' making informed decisions and getting proper results; rather, FUE has been hijacked by savvy and shrewd charlatans and hype-fiends delivering varying degrees of inferior results, and, almost univerisally, outrageously poor transparency to patients. Theoretically, FUE yield can be equal to FUT -- and it can certainly be superior than FUT depending upon the doctor. However, no doctor as proven w/ any degree of certainty that the very certain forces working against the FUE procedure itself have been solved. That said, the proof is in the pudding, and if quality results are consistently delivered -- even without true transparency -- it would make many a believer out of many a skeptic. FUE vs. FUT yield aside, there is also the debate over taking donor hair outside of the traditional safe zone and from areas susceptible to BHT (e.g. the nape and temples). No matter what, though, a glorious result for Abedogg would be particularly awesome. Re: HTs...not much would make me happier than a doctor who has mastered mega-session FUE, and can apply aggressively to newfound zones of donor hair.

GL...I think I'd just cop to it in this spot, too; confidently say you got some "cool, new procedure done that re-establishes hairlines" or w/e...

LL, you look like you are on a great course to get the right result. The waiting game is difficult, no doubt; but, IMO, the "impatience" or "anxiousness" we feel is often directly corresponding to how sweet of a result we know we will most likely get b/c of the research and thought that we put into it! Personally, my life went through major changes right around the HT, so it never really bugged me waiting it out -- I was bombarded by other (good) stuff that I began doing. Anyways, I recommend to *anyone* getting a HT to figure something cool and engaging to take up following the procedure -- hobby, pursuit, w/e. It's good to branch out and try new things or make self-improvements, generally speaking, but it can def help ease the pain of waiting!

Of course, it would be nice for the lawsuit thread to stand; and, in and of itself, its removal can look like some pro-Armani victory, or Pat making some compromise for Armani's benefit. That said, HTN has been a bastion of free speech; and, w/ regard to Armani (and other hacks, too), Pat hasn't just allowed us to talk the talk, but clearly took great aims to walk the walk himself. No matter how passionate and strong any of us feel, it's dwarfed by Pat taking the route less chosen and directly putting his finances, reputation, and very livelihood in the crosshairs for no benefit other than protecting free speech and his vision for heightened honesty. I would very much like the lawsuit thread to stand -- I personally posted a few gems in it, along w/ many others, and it sucks to see them go 6ft under. But, perfection is the enemy of the good -- and if that (legally entwined) thread is a lone sacrifice in the battle to allow the myriad of past, present and future posts to stand, while neutering Armani's vicious lawsuits, I have little problem, and trust that its removal is that of a necessary and calculated move to achieve the best possible outcome (which sometimes means abandoning a fixation on a perfect outcome).

Looking real sharp! It's going to be a really sweet result in another few months!

Thx for the answer, Bill, -- makes sense, and I agree w/ you it is for everyone's benefit (their's too....) to keep it open....

FYI, was unable to comment on Bernstein's latest posting ()

Righteous! That is a really bold, sweet hairline -- dare I say I'm jealous?!?

Farrel.....yer a smart smart dude!