thanatopsis_awry

Incredibly sorry for what's happened to you. However, at this point, dwelling on sympathy I don't think is in your best interest....as said, contact lawyers ASAP, I'm not sure if having waited so long will make a major impact, but definitely get in touch with legal aid sooner rather than later. I'm just asking this for the sake of clarity, as we all can make awkward decisions when under duress or trauma: is there a reason you haven't inquired into legal assistance after all this time?

Re: donor scar....I was recently told (and I think it was posted somewhere, as well) that H&W beleive that a larger excision strip can actually be conducive towards less scar stretching. As for yield, it should be just as superb @ 4k as @ 2k with any number of the elite clinics doing such sessions.

A good, but mostly unspoken, point to consider. It all comes down to a fully informed patient who knows the ins and outs of their procedure and it's potential consequences. My main gripe with cases like this is not even that it is a super young guy is getting an HT; or even that it is a super young guy with super minimal loss; so much as it is a super young guy with super minimal loss getting an extreme quotage of grafts for a procedure with results that are speculative at best, that defies his best interest.

Docs who do the more "aggressive" sessions do not beleive there is an appreciable increase in the risk of permanent shockloss, or risk in general...when, of course, the sessions are being carried out by a surgeon of the highest skill, with tools of the most fine-tuned nature, with a large enough staff of the highest caliber, and on the patient with the right charachteristics. I made a thread just yesterday about the differing graft quotes from clinic clinic that got some good feedback. Not everyone can get an "aggressive" "mega"-sized session; but, if it is *most* appropriate for you, it is to your disservice if you don't at least try to get it, imo....your physiology, of course, can be a dealbreaker, but that won't be fully known till' the op.

YG24, Good to hear that you've tried shaving your head, and that it looks alright -- out of sight, out of mind, or so they say! Regarding hairloss, especially when you are young, the bottomline is that you need to find resolution, however you get that. Perhaps it is a single thing or a combination of things; be it concealers, HTs, shaving your head, exploring a new hobby, developing ones you already have, working out, etc. Losing my hair has been a huge thing for me; BUT, I wouldn't be being totally honest if I said it was the be all and end all for life's occasional woes; to put TOO much stock into it, and use it as a crutch/scapegoat for every single thing that bothers me, annoys me, depresses me wouldn't be in my actual best interest....ya know? You have to look at the totality of your situation, imo, and figure out the right combination of "pieces" that make sense for YOU! Try to be optimistic; it is something of an intangible notion, but I do give a lot of credence to "mind over matter". Get in the zone, you are probably at something of a low right now, fight through it, slowly but gradually make improvements and it will get better n' better. BTW, I used to be a full fledged insomniac so I know what half-way decent sleeping patterns can do for ya!

Is your loss "stable"? On any treatments? If your loss has stabalized, and your pattern is pronounced and relatively easy to discern, I see no reason why a HT would be such a horrific idea for you to seriously look into. Of course, you probably shouldn't densepack anything resembling an 18yr old hairline, but there can be a middle ground that is appropriate for you. Would you still be taking a risk? Sure, you pretty much always will be. Is it a huge risk or a small risk...and most importantly is the risk worth it to you? You sound depressed -- actually, you pretty much stated you are depressed. But, and I could be off, your feelings seem to not be contained to just hairloss and aren't even really being propelled by the hair loss itself. Without actually knowing you, or even seeing a picture of you, I would: *Consult with a couple of reputable, elite clinics...just see what they have to say, don't have to commit. *Go to a good dermatologist and get your skin taken care of....face wash, pills, w/e works. *Exercise if you aren't already...even if it is really basic stuff....build off of it, and stick with it for at least a consistent month. *Try buzzing/shaving your head and getting a mild, but appreciable tan.

Hmmm, interesting and good points made by all. I am w/ Bill that it would be interesting to see a physician or someone associated w/ a clinic who has differing view/philosophy. I don't mean to bash smaller sessions, and as Mrjb said, there clearly are times where smaller sessions are most appropriate; but, I can't help but think that often times that "conservative" appelation is getting thrown out there when in fact it goes against Bspot's "what is right for the patient." The case in the linked thread *looks* to possibly be such a case; which is why I think it's important for such clinics to get out their philisophical reasoning when they seem to have a "conservative" approach...whether you end up agreeing with it or not, it is better than the peoples' reaction of "what were they smoking". Cases like this do puzzle me, though, particularly when the clinic *has* showed the ability to perform sessions far larger than their prognosis. As mentioned, various esteemed, doctors can give varying opinion, as in Richie's case....all while supplied with the "same info, backround, photos, personal goals". Also, as in the case of Armani (imo), bigger clearly isn't always better.

There are clinics that are known as "conservative" and others that are "aggressive"; specifically, I'm thinking of graft quotes, and am not taking into account extremes like Armani or Dr. Hack recommending 200 grafts for a NW4. But, what do these labels really imply about a clinic -- there either is an optimal route for a patient, or there isn't, right, and graft quotes should be roughly equivolent place to place? Financial reasons, and perhaps patient preference notwithstanding(a patient places a premium, e.g. on not shaving down, or limiting work to a particular area). http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=75880 This is a recent example where 3 clinics (though, I am thinking of one in particular) where they gave quotes 50%+ (!!!) less than what the patient ended up getting. What's the deal? Is there logic to going about things so "conservatively" in cases like this, that gives it pro's as opposed to the obvious con's. I'm not saying this to bash any clinic, and I wasn't seeking out an example with the ones mentioned in the link. At the same time, based off my own initial thoughts and the reaction in that thread, I think it's in everyone's interest -- especially the clinics -- to shed some light onto this.

I haven't seen much of his work, but I've heard from a very credible source that his work is very good. Take that for whatever it's worth.

Re: exercise. I started light exercise 15 days post-op. Very light exercise; basically, just getting my body parts moving with a little resistance, breaking a sweat, and paying particular attention to any tightness in my donor. I am now about 4 weeks post-op, and I've started more rigorous exercise and my donor feels great. I'm being rather aggressive in my approach, but I'm well aware of the circumstance and it is a judgement call that I'm making -- plus, I am still being cognizent of my donor, and staying away from running and neck exercises where I do feel "awkwardness".

Sorry to hear of your dissapointing results; as mentioned, before/after pics would be cool if you can swing 'em. Of the docs you've mentioned, I am unfamiliar w/ Seiger; I've seen nothing but good work from Rahal; Hasson and Wong are both terrific, though Wong has the "reputation" of being the crown master of the two, which isn't to say his hairlines aren't elite. As for doctors not mentioned, I would look @ Feller and Shapiro. You can't go wrong with any of the aforementioned, so take solace in that. I think depending on your degree of loss, and what type of session you can and should be seeking, you might gravitate towards one or the other, and based off of consults (the most important thing, imo) you'll find one whom you feel most comfortable with.

Great stuff! You are going to be mint in another 6 months!

If you want to sleep with as many women as possible, act like an "alpha male"; if you want to not sleep with any women act hermetic and zealously shy; otherwise, do all you can to "be yourself", where "yourself" make you happy, and wherever and however the cookies end up crumbling you will be OK. The happiest people I know -- and have known -- with regard to women and relationships, have been "awful" with girls.

The laxity exercises primarily help with regard to max graft #s; though, I've heard that they can also make an appreciable difference on your scalp post-op, making the area less tight. I didn't really do them (and got 3k+ fwiw); though, if/when I get my 2nd HT I am going to give myself 3months+ to do them assiduously. Also, I've never heard of a doc taking more ($) than what he gave you (grafts); I have, however, heard of many instances where you get more grafts than for what you paid. I agree w/ NG2GB -- I think you are fine, so don't fret. Being a virgin scalp is a big +, and you aren't going for a max session, so I do think you will be set.

Assuming we are thinking of the same hairline, I think it is sound (w/ regard to density) -- and appealing. I'll spend 50 seconds or so trying to find a picture to post, for confirmation purposes.

I'd much rather have a team of experienced, patient women, laboriously inserting my grafts than one, "thick-fingered" man -- no offense to Dr. Feller, or any other doc, as I have no idea of the relative thickness of any of your fingers. The consistently excellent results of top clinics, who follow this route, speak for themselves. At the end of the day we all just want the best results, and the best consistency.

Well said. We do hold the linchpin to forward progress (in conjunction with a minority of doctors willing to rise to the challenge); the higher we raise the bar by seeking and rewarding superior results, and by not acquiescing to mediocrity (or worse), the sooner progress will come.

No -- we were referring to grafts, not follicles, in regards to what is or isn't a large session..at least I was, and I'm pretty sure everyone else was, as well. It is all relative, of course; but, again, after looking at all your pics, I think Wong's 4k prognosis is MUCH more in line than the "very large" Griffin estimate. A bit disconcerting, that, once again, it seems they are telling you that these "large" sessions are "few and far between"; if he is referring to their "1700graft sessions" that is stunning to me, to say the least; but, even if he is referring to sessions above and beyond that, it is ridiculous to say that they are few and far between. AND, regardless of a numerical sessions sizes occurrance, all that matters is what is most appropriate and best for you...

Definite, major improvement; and you still have ample time to thicken up. From looking at your pictures, I think it looks best in the "just out of bed" shot, where the hair is pushed forward, but then "spiked"/lifted up in the front/hairline.

"In the follicular game of life, MPB is the rake...the (*@!* rake..." First person to correctly identify the movie which that diologue is a spin-off of will receive 10 of the first 50 new hairs of mine that sprout, mailed, of course, 1st class, and each encased in a blend of 24carrot gold and sterling silver.

It was, indeed, fortress of comfort and softness, though you don't have to sleep with a cardboard crown and plastic spear and make like it's 1989 and your playing dungeons n' dragons.....codeine make a man do many a funny thing....

Ya, scalp exercises work, as far as I'm concerned, as well. As for staples -- I don't think they themselves hurt, as much as it is just the donor area as a whole. I didn't find them particularly painful, though they are certaintly uncomfortable and I was anxious to get them out after the first 10 days. Regarding sleeping with them, I found this combo to work the best, BY FAR...! Took a "hard", smallish pillow and plased it in the middle of my bed at the base, then took a soft pillow and placed it veritcally over it, took another soft pillow, folded it in the center, and placed it at the botom of the neck...THEN, took one of those cylindrilical roll pillows and placed that under my beck, and just sank into the position. Found it quite comfortable and pain-free. I also took two mammoth hardish pillows and placed them on each side of me, creating a sort of fortress so I wouldn't roll over and move around too much.

As a Feller patient, though this is pretty similiar to many other patients from many other good clinics: post-Op, 3 hours of moderate pain that evening in my donor/staple region, after that, just general anxiety over My Precious, and still a good deal of excitement which possibly masked some minor pain. The staples themselves are not felt as they are administered, and aside from the anesthesia shots I had zero pain -- and I would rate the shots as pretty minor. Staple removal -- 1.2 out of 10; maybe 5 out of the ~50 felt like a quick pinch at the worst. In the interest of full disclosure, however, the women taking them out was a bit surprised that they came out so smoothly/pain-free for me, but from all I've read and heard, it simply isn't that bad. Also, she may just have been trying to make me feel manly...

I'd reiterate that you should do what ya can to post a bunch of different pics of your "mop", so we can give you a better breakdown on things....I also think that there is a shot -- not sayin this is actually so -- that your hairloss might not be *that* bad...that is, it is noticeable to you, but to most people, in most situations, it isn't visible enough to harm your appearance. Either way, do what you can to educate yourself, and come up with a solid battleplan for your present and future; after that, just follow it, and try to not think about hairloss. There are good options out there, even at a young age, for some people, so don't get too depressed.

Thx for the wise words, all; VERY comforting. It's amazing how your mind can concoct the absolute worst-case scenarios post-HT. Just for reference, I wouldn't consider the guy a good friend, and he certaintly has no idea about my HT -- was "just" razzing me for being away from the gym for so long and wanted to give me a "welcome back hello", I suppose. Either way, I say Balody sheds his tap dancing shoes, the pink tutu, visits the states and administers a nice case of cauliflower ear to this dude!