thanatopsis_awry

N.B. to those who read, filter what is said through the lens of me being slightly hammered after downing two Scorpion Bowls (actually didn't down two "scorpion bowls", but foolishly, albeit unwittingly drank a little bit) w/ my mother....**shameless plug #1** Hanata (Japanese) Fusion Restaurant and Bar makes a mean Scorpion Bowl and has wonderful, crispy duck, ahem. The Night Before I arrive to Inn At Great Neck and immediately start wondering if knowledge really is always power, and whether or not I should have spent so much time on the Bosley Medical Violation website. Any irrational anxieties, however, are quickly quelled when I scoped out the sick, hanging TV in my room and an eclectic supply of Pirate's Booty on the top of the cabinet. N.B. #2 it is often said that Caramel Pirate's Booty and Scorpion Bowls have a synergistic effect, and tonight proved no different. Settling into my room, my mother and I make haste into the mellow, but wholly interesting and refined night of Great Neck, NY. In well over a year, this is the first time I have exposed myself to the public sans Dermmatch and/or Toppik. And it felt awkward, but liberating; like the first time you wear a pink shirt, or so I imagine....we amble along, and find out way to the aforementioned Scorpion Bowls and crispy duck. N.B #3 the sushi looked to be amazing, but I wasn't about to risk getting food poisoned for the third time in as many months by gorging oneself on raw fish....not that there is anything wrong with that. Drunk, but not altogether mentally absent, I run down my master check-list of potentially useful items, paying particular attention the narcotic section of my list. Perhaps losing my hair @ 20 and electing to get a series of HT is a disguised blessing after all. Speaking of blessings, **shameless plug #2** Dr. Feller's office is situated in close proximity to a Chinese "ChiGong" massage shop; indeed, right across the street from the Inn At Great Neck you can have your back and neck trampled upon and come out feeling wonderful. Highly recommended, even if you elect to go about your business sans trampling. My father has called me about 8 times in the span of 8 hours as he thinks I am about to go to the butcher store and come back with hair that resembles shredded honey-ham. It is with this vein that I will down an ambien, and retire to my chambers, bathing myself in a soothing slumber of ambien and Scorpion Bowlage where cell-phone rings just don't exist. Surgical experience and frank dialogue of Why and How I got here to follow...

Regarding the rogaine, most people tolerate the foam much better....both in terms of ease of use, and irritation -- or lackethereof -- to their scalp. This may or may not be enough for you to pay a premium for it. I think the general rule when dealing with the cheaper alternatives to drugs like propecia is to make sure you are getting them from a wholly credile source. From what I understand going "generic" is fine, but you run the risk of getting it from an unethical source if you aren't careful.

It almost does look like he is wearing concealer in that pic; not saying he is, butit looks VERY similiar to my hair when I had it at that length and was using dermmatch....just speaks to the perceived thickness of it either way. I don't think the shortness of the hair would make a good HT any more or less "detectable"; though, if you don't currently have X quotient of density at a given time the hair may look thinner when worn at shorter lengths as opposed to slightly longer ones. But, as for detectability of HT, I don't think it should be an issue.

Dermatologist; HT doc; General practicioner....all can get you the teste-shrinking goods.

The 20yr old thread is indeed hard to beleive....as for doctors to fit your needs, I would reiterate what others have said and throw out the following names that I don't think you could go wrong with and should get a personal feel for: Feller (obv lol), H&W, Shapiro, Rahal. The curtain will clearly fall for Armani, eventually; it already is starting to crumble from a theory/logic standpoint ....it might take a while, especially since the sheer # of grafts he transplants onto low NW's will make it more difficult to fully ascertain the growth rates, and patient satisfaction in a given surgery will be masked, in a sense. Armani's current ethics w/ his FUE practice (and marketing) transcend just being a bit overzealous in graft counts. At least in the past you knew your result wouldn't be a farce to what you were promised from marketing and what you fully expected.... He will be a wealthy man, though, and have a nic lil' empire of sorts by the time the smoke clears.

PGP, I too have heard of stuff like that....very shady... Diezel, to clarify, I don't think you got butchered, far from it; and I don't think your hair is going to look bad, or even worse; in fact, I am SURE it will look much better as Armani has skills and the SHEER ratio of the # of grafts to the balding areas will make a nice difference. And the FUE procedure in and of itself is wholly sound. I still stand by my original post though, and that Armani has gone from questionable ethics and patently good results to questionable results and horrific ethics. The burden of proof is clearly on Armani to conclusively prove that he somehow, someway, all by himself, without anyone else knowing, found a way to bypass the host of FUE-meggasession difficulties that a myriad of brilliant, devoted HT docs have not. NG2GB, assuming no miscommunications, I think it's the most outraeous thing I've ever heard of regarding this type of thing. Armani is slick, though, and his Machiavellian marketing campaign is focused and effective to say the least....I can easily see how someone, even after doing some research, could go through with him w/o knowing the full deal...I almost did..... Bottom line to me is that Armani gets TOO GOOD of a rap; saying he has questionable ethics doesn't do that much to a 20 year old panicking over his hair loss who just wants a cure-all.

You get 4500 grafts with no discernable hairloss, and for the express purpose of getting a highly aggressive hairline and temple design? And you are 20? Jesus haha, that is pretty bold, even by Armani standards. Do you have any pics? I can't imagine someone with little to no hairloss getting 4500 grafts just for some refinement. My biggest concern for Armani patients like yourself actually isn't even his "ethics", per say; it is that I personally have zero trust in his actual FUE results....with strip, I would agree that his work was very good but his ethics were questionable; with FUE I question his results and think his ethics are horrific. Don't get me wrong though, I LOVE the concept of FUE and think that even right now it can be used with great effect and appropriateness. There are some very informative threads regarding FUE on this website and on the HairLossHelp forum.....it's true that the process is more labor intensive, and it takes longer -- hence, the higher pricing. But, there is a lot to the FUE procedure of handling the grafts that by all *known* accounts has *not* been perfected, and the risks resulting in transection and poor growth rates remain, especially when megasessions are performed in one sitting vis a vis "brute force". Also, regarding the rogaine, I'm pretty sure there is no credible evidence that using a higher than 5% concentration will do anything other than irritate your body, so I'd just stick to the 5% in your case.

Thx, and I agree, especially when first starting out, just concern yourself w/ the most proven and effective treatments (minodoxil and fin), and throw in a revita/nizoral shampoo as it's pretty convenient. And for a concealer to see if dermmatch can be a one-stop solution in that department.

I won't say too much, but while I feel for some of those guys who unwittingly got butchered or wasted precious time and money, they have lived in the follicular equivolent of the stone-age, and just don't seem to be fully cognizent of the *elite*, *current* options available to men via HTs. Keep up your research; I would recommend looking into various esteemed doctors (Coalition Docs, e.g.) -- read their literature, patient feedback, perhaps set up a free consultation with a couple to get a good feel. The differences in what those links are in response to and what you will be looking at is truly like night and day. Note -- this site has an express interest in combating the inferior, often horrid, procedures that are sadly commonplace at places like a Bosley, and providing prospective patients with an array of honest information to start their search on the right path.

If you aren't on any of the aforementioned I would rank the following in order of efficacy/importance in getting on to help your hair growth: Proscar/Fin....Rogaine 5% Foam.....Revita....MSM....throw in a vitamin E supplement, perhaps. If you avoid rogaine, you can certaintly still achieve positive results; however, you are, of course, lowering your ceiling....propecia and rogaine are also known to have a synergistic effect with one another. Bottom line, don't get overwhelmed, stick to the basics and the proven stuff.

Hmmm. I agree there is some minutae, but it might not be quite as vast a land to cover as you may think. Here is a personal breakdown that I think covers virtually all of what one may usefuly want to encounter: **Concealers** (often using a combo of the two different types of concealers produces optimal results) --dermmatch (scalp paint to reduce contrast and hair thickener) --toppik/nanogen (hair fibers that cling to existing hair and make it more dense; more difficult to use in thinner, balder areas) **Shampoos and "adjunct" treatments** (primary hairloss ingredient being ketoconazole in the shampoos) --Nizoral (1% or 2%, 2% stronger, though often too harsh for some scalps, which leads us to...) --Revita (throws everything and the kitchen sink in to help your hair; much less harsh than nizoral, though more expensive) --MSM (accelerates the growth cycle of hair) --Vitamin E (e.g. "toco-8", stimulates hair re-growth) **Heavy Artillery DHT Fighters(e.g. drugs, that which gives you the best chance for regrowth and revitalization of minaturizing hairs)** --Propecia/Finasteride/Finpecia/Proscar/"Fin" --Avodart/Dutasteride (perhaps more potent at fighting DHT than Fin, but is not yet actually FDA approved for hair loss and carries some baggage; best to try Propecia for an extended period of time beforehand) --Rogaine/Minodoxil (Rogaine Foam 5% is the gold standard for delivering maximum potency with least complications/irritations to scalp)

Hmmm, I don't mean to imply it made him look like a NW7 for 3 months, just that his hair looked a tad bit -- but noticeably -- thinner for a while. Hoenstly, you have to look at the shed as a true expression of one step backward for two steps forward, albeit the steps get taken in an irritating manner; but it is temporary, and is just a harbinger for growth and progress. The shockloss that comes from you HT is most likely going to be temporary, or happen to hairs that were "on their way out" and too weak to survive. Personally, I wish I started rogaine myself pre-HT. I'm relegated to start up with it post-HT.

Agreed. Even if you ultimately go with this dude (which I think 9.8/10 times you won't), make sure you do ample research into your options before you commit. Price aside, we fortunately live in a present where a legit elite exists w/ regard to hair transplants. Make sure you have a good feel of the quality of work you will receive from this guy, which you can determine both in the prognosis he gives you (as compared to other docs which you should consult with), and also in the clear, detailed pictures that he shows you. For what it's worth, some of the most archaic procedures in the pantheon of hair restoration are carried out at "posh", "modern", clinics in places like Bev Hills.

Your going to have really great hair when this grows in; and, with your minimal loss (soon to be virtually nonexistent ) and barely even tapping into your donor reserve your follicular future looks stable and bright, indeed.

Hmmm, I offer the following, which may or may not actually apply to you: *You are using too much *You are using too much in areas that are either too thinned out or need to be handled very delicately *Try applying dermmatch first; it works great alone, but I think it works great with a toppik/nanogen concealer and helps to conceal the concealer *Try working your hairs so that they are more "clumped" together so the toppik latches onto more hairs and stays moreso off your scalp *Try taking a thin edge of a towel or paper towel and gently wipe off any "blotches" of concealer that are showing on your scalp *Finally, the way your hair looks in the state you mentioned may very well be one of the "worst" (i.e. most obvious) of situations, and is exacerbating any less than perfect aspects of your application

Hairline looks great; nice head of hair, man, and it will only get better!

Heh, ya, no green hair wanted. The guy I referred had been on propecia for a year, which had stabalized his crown but his front if any deteriorated slightly; he went on rogaine and after some big sheds a year later had definite regrowth and all around thickening in the front. Given the timeline and already having been on propecia for a while I give the rogaine a lot of legitimacy in his hair growth.

Interesting, I think I'm going to order up a batch this weekend before my HT and give it a go....sounds like it could be a brother in arms to the Nizoral....also, seems just like a positive supplement to take hair-loss aside.

Hmmm, is there any known reason for propecia to be boosting the effetiveness of the rogaine? Or is it just one of those things where there is a synergistic effect between the two that is obvious, and the why just isn't currently known. Btw, More, from what I understand the official testing and trials for the drugs was focused on the crown, and so the products' official statements don't actually guarantee to be working on like the hairline. However, with rogaine in particular, I have heard a *ton* of relatively credible anecdotal evidence that rogaine can work very well on the frontal areas for some people, even the hairline. I personally have a friend whose frontal 1/3rd grew like a chia pet when he added rogaine.

I beleive Bill and Janna have said that FUE harvesting should theoretically be the same # for FUT in a given person. 3k-3.5k I wouldn't think would be anywhere near the # for you to get a "moth eaten" look. I did see a lone example of Armani's once where a guy received well over 8k from FUE and one problem I saw -- besides rather poor growth -- was a poor looking donor. FUE may very well be a great option for you, just be cautious as to who you go to and how you proceed as many of the "top" FUE docs are shrowded in various controversies.

Josh, Thx, I'm starting to get pretty nervous-excited, like counting down the hours till' Christmas morning the day before. Good call on the laughing gas, I've personally never heard of that being utlized either; maybe waterski really did go to the dentist after all! I'm still confused about his logic (or purpose) for administering both micros and minis (for behind the hairline) in the same procedure when he has the ability to use both.

A mod would have to have the fastest hands in The West to keep pace with you.... I'm a litle lost though looking through Dr. Zacco's website; he talks of using "micro" grafts along the hairline, and "mini" grafts behind the hairline to produce the most natural looking result. The terminology is somewhat fuzzy to me, but why would he use the superior "micro" grafts in *only* the hairline. I've never heard of someone using "mini" type grafts, but then also using "micro" type ones as well in the same procedure.

Very nice, congrats! Like Kam said, that really is an excellent graft count, I assume your scalp laxity is quite good. Any idea if you have any left in the tank? Anyways, looking forward to seeing your progress, grow well!

Do you have any pics to post, could be very helpful? Also, how old are you? And whose office did you go to? Andand, did a doctor recommend you get ~1k grafts? If you actually only need 1k grafts at the max -- and are a good candidate -- I would definitely recommend looking into an FUE procedure. If I were to get a "megasession" of FUE done (an FUE megasession to me is definitely not the same # of grafts as an FUT megasession, and to me your procedure would classify as an FUE-megasession) it would 100% be with Dr. Feller, but you can and prolly should look into others as well to get the best comparison.

It looks like the great beast has afflicted yet another; somewhat difficult to say for me from your hairstyle in the front picture, but I would classify you as a NW3. You have caught it fairly early, though, and getting on the best treatments (rogaine foam 5%, propecia...revita shampoo if you want to cover every possible angle) is really going to boost your chances of taming your hairloss. As you may or may not know, the treatments work best in the crown, and you seem like a good candidate to be able to respond great to them -- time will tell. Just make sure to stay on them for a while, and ride out any "shed" (basically it might look worse for a couple months before hair comes back stronger, which is actually a positive sign that you are responding). Again, you've caught it fairly early, are going to get on the best treatments, and through the research you have done and will do will be putting yourself in a great spot. Give the treatments a year, and document your progress would be my advice. If the loss is really hurting you try a concealer like dermmatch or toppik (or both) and see if it is for you; if not, nothing lost but a few bucks.