Senior Member win200 Posted November 9, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 9, 2015 Question for the doctors/reps that post here... do you have any idea what the average hair-per-graft ratio is? I had 2,129 grafts for 4,013 total hairs from my last procedure, which left me with a ration of 1.89. That seems low to me; I had 1,233 doubles, but only 315 triples--that seemed extremely low. Nothing I can do about it, but just wondering where that stacks up. I seem to see a lot of graft counts with roughly half as many triples as doubles rather than one-quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member gijedi Posted November 9, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted November 9, 2015 Recently had about 900 grafts / 4,500 hairs to crown. I know about hair texture and contrast between skin and hair...but someone please just answer...for the purposes of density, is the total number of hairs a better indicator of density than the number of grafts....?Just curious Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member win200 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted November 9, 2015 I think your numbers might be off... 4,500 hairs from 900 grafts would be all quintuple grafts. Did you mean 1,900? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member gijedi Posted November 10, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well.....needless to say, I can only go by what I was told.... I will say that this is a place (where I had my most recent HT done) that preferentially uses larger grafts (multiple units hair grafts) with the express intention of creating density. I was assured that "plugginess" wouldn't be an issue. Assuming that the number are correct, and just to understand density expectations, the question is, given a choice between many hairs or many grafts, which one give best density ..in other words, would you prefer to have 4,500 single hair grafts, 1,500 3-hair grafts or 900 5-hair grafts? Any and all opinions would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted November 10, 2015 Administrators Share Posted November 10, 2015 I had . 1's: 592, 2's: 908, 3's: 402, 4's 218: Total 2120 grafts which breaks down to 4,486 hairs, I thoughy my numbers were kinda low too I think my average is 2.1 hairs per graft. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member gijedi Posted November 10, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted November 10, 2015 Are you happy with your results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Louisjams Posted November 10, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 10, 2015 Most people seem to come in with an average of right around 2.0 I notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member matt3480 Posted November 12, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 12, 2015 Yes, I believe average is just above 2 (thought I read somewhere it was about 2.2). I think a lot of it depends on the goals of the surgery. Obviously, if you are trying for coverage....you would probably want as many 3, 4, 5's as possible. At the hairline...you obviously would want mostly 1's. 3,000 hairs is 3,000 hairs.....but 3,000 hairs from 3,000 1-hair grafts is much different than 3,000 hairs from 1,300 grafts $$$$-wise. On my 2,800 graft session....I had around 2,075 put on the temples and forelock...and I think I got around 5,000 hairs. On my temple points....I had maybe 700 grafts but all were purposely pretty much 1-hair units. So I got about 6,000 hairs with 2800 grafts or so.....but most were 2,3,4,5 with the exception of those temple points. I'm getting a second pass done in January for purposes of density....and I'm hoping to get as much bang for the buck as possible....lots of 2-4 hair follicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Stuart01 Posted November 12, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 12, 2015 a follicular units grow in groupings of 1,2,3 and occasionally 4hairs. There are always going to be more 1 hair grafts, then the next most will be 2 hairs, followed by less 3 hair groupings, with the least amount be 4 hair follicular units. It is all best to use the single hair grafts in the hairline and then follow up with 2 hair units right behind the single hairs. 3 and 4 hair follicular units should be used behind the 1 and 2 hair groupings and used more for density. I am employed as the patient coordinator and office manager for Chicago Hair Transplant Clinic. Feel free to ask me any questions. Dr. Panine is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians I am not a medical professional and my opinions should not be interperted as medical advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted November 13, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 13, 2015 The overall average is 2.15 - 2.3 hairs per graft per individual. But depending on the case such as the rebuilding of a hairline, many more single hair grafts are going to be used which would bring the average per graft downward. Let's also define the graft as an uninterrupted natural occurring FU in the scalp. The best way to ascertain the average with FUHT is to have the overall strip evaluated for the total number of FUs along with the total number of hair shafts to determine the overall average from the typical donor region. Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member win200 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted November 13, 2015 Oh, that's interesting. I'm still sorta disappointed that mine was so low (1.88) because it means that the bang for my buck was less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted November 13, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 13, 2015 But if you have a good degree of hair caliber, that overrides density of thinner caliber hair... Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member win200 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted November 13, 2015 True; and I think I have pretty thick hair. I've never had an official caliber measurement taken, but Dr. Konior once told me that my caliber was above average. And yeah, I'm just looking for things to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Kiran0078 Posted November 16, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hi, It totally varies with the hair restoration technique that you have adopted likely in FUE or FUT respectively. Well, If you have done FUT Hair transplant procedure then on an average the yield of FUT grafts is around 1.5 – 2.4 hair per graft where as the yield with FUE can be in 1.7-3.2 hair per graft respectively.Talking about FUE hair restoration the average yield between 1.9-2.5 hair grafts however more recently the average graft yield has been 2.6-3.2 hair per graft. I would personally like to consider that the increase in the yield has been improved with these respective techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted November 16, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 16, 2015 Oh, that's interesting. I'm still sorta disappointed that mine was so low (1.88) because it means that the bang for my buck was less. Win, you had mostly hairline work done which surgeons use singles on, so perhaps Rahal was cherry picking the singles. Did you have strip or FUE again? If strip, maybe he cut the doubles/triples into singles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member win200 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted November 16, 2015 Win, you had mostly hairline work done which surgeons use singles on, so perhaps Rahal was cherry picking the singles. Did you have strip or FUE again? If strip, maybe he cut the doubles/triples into singles? It was an FUT procedure. I'd be shocked if he cut doubles/triples; I always thought it was considered HIGHLY unethical to split grafts and then charge for the separate units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted November 16, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 16, 2015 It was an FUT procedure. I'd be shocked if he cut doubles/triples; I always thought it was considered HIGHLY unethical to split grafts and then charge for the separate units. Yeah, I take it back then, highly unlikely that Rahal's clinic would engage in that practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member esrec Posted November 16, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 16, 2015 1 FU's - 584 2 FU's - 1334 3 FU's - 532 2450 grafts / 4848 hairs Density: 125 FU/cm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Dr. William Lindsey Posted November 17, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted November 17, 2015 Its way more than just graft count and ratios. I've done a bunch of posts on this and a few videos using trees to show how thin trees and thick trees or thin hair and thick hairs are way more important than just the numbers. Next is the color match or mismatch between the hair and skin. You take a dark haired but really white skinned guy and it'll take WAY more thick hairs to cover that scalp than brown hair and tan or brown skin. A whole book chapter could be written on that alone! Finally the donor regions of everyone are different. We do TONS of guys from India, Pakistan, and Afganistan. As I tell all of them...they have the same donor hair and it comes in roughly 2 flavors...very straight and fine and bushy wirey uncontrollable... Obviously the latter covers better. And then those groups have wildly different donor characteristics. We've gotten 4500 out of a 1.6 cm wide strip in some and in others struggle to get 2200 with a high percentage of singles. So don't be fooled by anyone saying what the "norm" is. There is no norm for everyone. When you have your consultation...the doctor ought to tell you what your donor region looks like. Is it great, crappy, full of sparse weak hairs, packed with gobs of doubles and triples.... Its pretty easy to guestimate what you'll get with the exception of really white hair and white skin. Then its hard for me to guess and hard for the cutters to find the roots...so we add an hour or more to the case. Here's a video showing tree thickness and follicular unit analogies. I hope this is helpful and not just adding to the confusion. Iron all this out at your consultations! Dr. Lindsey McLean VA William H. Lindsey, MD, FACS McLean, VA Dr. William Lindsey is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member win200 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted November 17, 2015 Of course I get the WORST combination... pale skin with stick-straight dark brown hair and a low-ish hair-per-graft ratio. At least I've got really thick, rigid hair and minimal loss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member esrec Posted November 17, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 17, 2015 Worry not Win, you've got some killer hair. I'll trade ya I have a medium skin tone and bushy hair but literally no flexibility with post op hair style. I might have to buzz part of the recipient as it grows in to create some clean lines. I even decided to draw it out and diagram it on paper. Kinda sad. haha The importance of contrast makes sense. Definitely why courvre and dermatch work so well. Shame there's no bronzer you could apply to your head in a shampoo or conditioner that could create this naturally. Business idea anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted November 17, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted November 17, 2015 The thin trees versus thick trees is what I am referring to regarding hair caliber or what some docs refer to as hair shaft diameter. The larger degree of coarseness, the better coverage attained. Some docs have stated that hair caliber is the single most important factor considered in attaining the illusion of coverage. And I also agree that a wider contrast between complexion and hair color is ultimately more challenging to the individual. The thing about FUE is that the larger FUs typically will require a larger punch size to extract than the single hair bearing FU. And this is why IMHO that the averages are lower for FUE than FUHT. Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Louisjams Posted December 4, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted December 4, 2015 It seems to me that older individuals have a lower average. Anybody else notice this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member matt3480 Posted December 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted December 5, 2015 Depends how old....I think hair naturally thins when you get older (even in non-balding areas). That probably is why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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