Dr. Hasson | 3,000 graft | 31M Caucasian | Documenting the Journey

[HappyMan2021]

15 minutes ago, 4chanhrn said:

I agree. It looks OK now, and good on Dr. Hasson for standing by his work.

But for what H&W charges, this is still poor work. The artistry is poor and it just looks sloppy. Dr. Hasson is a good doctor and should be doing much better. You can compare this work to some of more artistic surgeons who are more involved like Munib Ahmad, Nader, Bruno Ferreira and simply see the difference.

totally. I am really curious if @Nordster34 can expand more on the communication that went on regarding the temple points and temple corners for this 2nd surgery. 

-Perhaps Dr. Hasson is simply bad at temple points and corners and his 1st attempt was the best he could do

-Perhaps Nordster has an unusual facial/skull shape that made this work harder

-Perhaps there is some still unknown visual aesthetic element to Nordstar that did indeed make the points and corners suitable for his face/head shapre

-Considering this was a free touch up repair surgery, perhaps Hasson decided that the time, effort, and surgery/operating expense of fixing the temples and corners was more than what this free surgery was offering.

Having strong temple points and temple corners is one of the most youthful aesthetic aspects of hair transplants. 

For example, there are NW3's and even NW4's who still have great, strong, healthy looking temple points, and this makes their overall hair appearance look healthy and good, even though they are balding!

Edited June 20 by HappyMan2021

[Berba11]

I'm glad you're happy now OP and it's been quite the journey.

If critical feedback is accepted, I do think the temple points look wrong - they still look pluggy and overly thick, and the shape is odd (though the average lay person will likely not notice!). What they needed to do was remove some of the worst elements of the temple points from the first go and then re-do them properly on this go. Instead they've just plastered over them with most of the same issues remaining. This seems ill-thought out and lazy on their part to be honest.

This is also the second thread in which we've learned of Dr Hasson's minimal time spent in the operating room with the patient and overseeing the surgery. I find this appalling - it's a trend we're seeing more and more across many clinics and I think we need to start calling this out when we see and hear it.

Lastly, I think it's pretty shocking you were charged for the extra and unconsented 600 grafts over the agreed 4,000. This simply isn't the done thing. Hair restoration is a service industry and we regularly see good surgeons not charge for extra grafts where the original estimate was a little too low. This is absolutely standard practice and to burden a captive patient with an extra cost whilst they're in a vulnerable position during or immediately post-op is really, really poor.

For these issues to crop up more than once at a distinguished clinic like H&W is quite staggering. They're supposed to be industry leaders, but this is not leadership or standard setting of any kind worth following.

[HappyMan2021]

3 hours ago, Berba11 said:

If critical feedback is accepted, I do think the temple points look wrong - they still look pluggy and overly thick, and the shape is odd (though the average lay person will likely not notice!). What they needed to do was remove some of the worst elements of the temple points from the first go and then re-do them properly on this go. Instead they've just plastered over them with most of the same issues remaining. This seems ill-thought out and lazy on their part to be honest

I think fixing the temple points would require 2 surgeries, and Hasson definitely doesnt want to do 2 free surgeries. Im pretty sure he only did the first one bc of all the outcry on this forum. 

So why fix the problem properly when it can be ignored just the same (sarcasm lol)

I also agree with your comments about Dr. Hasson's character. 

While free repair surgeries are certainly appreciated by patients, they by no means absolve surgeons of their flaws

Free surgeries are less about "surgeons being angels" and instead are really just political moves to prevent and/or cease the spread of bad reviews. HT docs live and die based on their reviews. 

Edited June 27 by HappyMan2021

[Nordster34]

Thanks for all the comments and the constructive commentary is definitely appreciated. Nothing is off limits for me for sure. Some answers to the below:

 

- The communication that took place w/ Dr Hasson pre-op was basically exactly what I communicated here to this group. I showed the sketches I had posted, explained my concerns about the sharpness of corners and temple points, and mentioned that I thought the original temple point design felt a bit off 

- I definitely have a pretty darn average head size and shape. Nothing unusual there that make my design needs different 

- Definitely didn’t ask for any unusual aesthetic. I did mention the concavity of the corners to temple points connection (how it has that “scoop” shape) felt a bit off. Also that the temple hair grafts were bit thick and had some doubles and triples. Asked about maybe using nape hairs to soften that but was told it doesn’t last / transplant well, and that the transplant I received will continue to soften over time (all the way until year 2). We definitely reduced that concavity scoop a bit with the refinement procedure, but perhaps reducing it more (which maybe would’ve involved removing some hairs?) could’ve been even better, though I’m not totally sure and am not the expert (which is why I went to the expert lol)

Any other questions ppl have that I can answer? 

On 6/19/2024 at 8:23 PM, HappyMan2021 said:

I am really curious if @Nordster34 can expand more on the communication that went on regarding the temple points and temple corners for this 2nd surgery. 

-Perhaps Dr. Hasson is simply bad at temple points and corners and his 1st attempt was the best he could do

-Perhaps Nordster has an unusual facial/skull shape that made this work harder

-Perhaps there is some still unknown visual aesthetic element to Nordstar that did indeed make the points and corners suitable for his face/head shapre

-Considering this was a free touch up repair surgery, perhaps Hasson decided that the time, effort, and surgery/operating expense of fixing the temples and corners was more than what this free surgery was offering.

 

 

[Al - Moderator]

I think you can probably just punch out a few random grafts along the temple points, so that it doesn't look so much like a hard, solid line of hair in the temples. That may make it look softer without having to add fine hairs to it.

[4chanhrn]

On 6/26/2024 at 8:43 PM, HappyMan2021 said:

Free surgeries are less about "surgeons being angels" and instead are really just political moves to prevent and/or cease the spread of bad reviews. HT docs live and die based on their reviews. 

Correct. On slightly unrelated note, I feel there is lot of "reputation management" that happens on forums when results are bad from certain docs.

Edited June 28 by 4chanhrn

[Al - Moderator]

14 minutes ago, 4chanhrn said:

I feel there is lot of "reputation management" that happens on forums when results are bad from certain docs.

 

Myself (Moderator) and Berba11 (Valued Contributor) both criticized the temple points on this surgery.

 

[4chanhrn]

32 minutes ago, Al - Moderator said:

 

Myself (Moderator) and Berba11 (Valued Contributor) both criticized the temple points on this surgery.

 

I didn't point fingers at you/Berba.

When there are financial incentives involved, there needs to be better disclosure.

Question for you: If clinic X and their affiliates is advertising on forum Y and forum Y pays me money to post here, do you think my opinion carries more or less weight when talking about that doc? Is it important that this is disclosed clearly? If I leave positive comments on a botch job by this clinic, would you believe my comments to be in good faith?

[Chrisno]

2 hours ago, Al - Moderator said:

I think you can probably just punch out a few random grafts along the temple points, so that it doesn't look so much like a hard, solid line of hair in the temples. That may make it look softer without having to add fine hairs to it.

Wouldn't it be much better to remove some grafts using electrolysis rather than punching (with scarring) them out? If it's 50 grafts on each side, I would personally do that instead.

That said, if Nordster could post some photos from the side, with hair slicked back completely (or cut shorter) it would be much easier for us to evaluate. Going back int he thread and viewing some shorter hair photos from the side, I don't personally see an issue with the temples. Also keep in mind that it will continue to soften. I am 12 months post op Hasson myself, and the hairline is getting softer each month as the hairs mature.

[Melvin- Admin]

5 hours ago, 4chanhrn said:

I didn't point fingers at you/Berba.

When there are financial incentives involved, there needs to be better disclosure.

Question for you: If clinic X and their affiliates is advertising on forum Y and forum Y pays me money to post here, do you think my opinion carries more or less weight when talking about that doc? Is it important that this is disclosed clearly? If I leave positive comments on a botch job by this clinic, would you believe my comments to be in good faith?

Berba11 is an unpaid volunteer. He has no financial incentives. His post was honest and he was obviously critical where he felt it was due. People are expressing their opinions. I think there’s a fair bit of the opposite going on here.

If this result happened to be from a no-name doctor or cheaper surgeon would people be calling it “botch job.” No, they wouldn’t. Because Hasson has such a high reputation and because of the cost, he’s being held to a higher standard, which is fair. But to pretend like users aren’t being honest is plain wrong. Valued contributors are not paid, there is no conflict of interest. 

[4chanhrn]

4 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Berba11 is an unpaid volunteer. He has no financial incentives. 

Like I said, my comment was not about Berba11.

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Valued contributors are not paid, there is no conflict of interest. 

Maybe it is important to disclose who exactly is paid by the forum and if the clinic pays the forum or any members directly?

The medical regulator of the province that this doc is based out of is pretty clear about conflict of interest or potential conflicts of interest. My intention is not to get anyone in trouble, but things like these harm credibility and without adequate self-governance regulators will crack down at some point.

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If this result happened to be from a no-name doctor or cheaper surgeon would people be calling it “botch job.” No, they wouldn’t. Because Hasson has such a high reputation and because of the cost, he’s being held to a higher standard, which is fair.

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Indeed these are excellent results. Im glad hasson and wong stood by their work. IMO that’s what separates the good from the great. 

It makes me wonder how anyone that has been in the industry for many years in good faith can find this to be excellent work. Maybe this is acceptable(barely) when you are paying Turkey hair mill prices, but not at all when you're paying nearly $8/graft.

There are docs that charge 1/3rd of this price that seem to be doing a far better job and certainly more involved than 29 minutes on day 1 and 16 minutes on day 2. That is hair mill territory by your own definition.

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A mill by definition isn’t a clinic that does multiple surgeries, it’s a clinic with little to no doctor involvement. 

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5. Dr. Hasson was only present for an extremely limited time during both days of surgery. Approximately 29 minutes in the room on day 1, and only about 16 minutes in the room on day 2. 

Even before the correction, some senior members found the work to be a great result. Without adequate disclosure, it is hard for anyone to judge what is in good faith and what is not.

Edited June 28 by 4chanhrn

[HappyMan2021]

3 hours ago, 4chanhrn said:

Maybe it is important to disclose who exactly is paid by the forum and if the clinic pays the forum or any members directly?

@4chanhrn ....its in Melvin's handle 🤣

 

Edited June 28 by HappyMan2021

[Al - Moderator]

 

On 6/28/2024 at 2:07 PM, 4chanhrn said:

Maybe it is important to disclose who exactly is paid by the forum and if the clinic pays the forum or any members directly?

Fair enough. My signature has indicated that I was a moderator since I got the position, but I didn't realize until just now that it didn't say I was paid, so I updated my signature to add the word paid. Melvin has had it in his signature for a long time.

 

 

[Al - Moderator]

On 6/28/2024 at 2:07 PM, 4chanhrn said:

Even before the correction, some senior members found the work to be a great result. Without adequate disclosure, it is hard for anyone to judge what is in good faith and what is not.

 

It was a good result.

 

 

 

[Al - Moderator]

On 6/28/2024 at 5:49 AM, Chrisno said:

Wouldn't it be much better to remove some grafts using electrolysis rather than punching (with scarring) them out? If it's 50 grafts on each side, I would personally do that instead.

 

That's an option, yes, and it's probably easier than punching a few out. Either option would work.

 

[Berba11]

On 6/28/2024 at 10:49 AM, Chrisno said:

Wouldn't it be much better to remove some grafts using electrolysis rather than punching (with scarring) them out? If it's 50 grafts on each side, I would personally do that instead

Punch outs done well very rarely leave scarring. The forehead and face area seems to heal quite differently from the donor area. 
 

Whether the OP had punch outs or electrolysis on the temple points isn’t so much the issue. The temple points are pluggy - they’ve used the wrong grafts (seemingly on both occasions, which is staggering) and to remove some wouldn’t necessarily improve that unless for some reason the hair behind the frontal edge of the temple points were single graft hairs. So you’d be removing multiples via whichever method and running into more multiple graft hairs behind. Same problem! Unless you remove a load in one session and then go back in with soft hairs in another session then it’s neither here nor there whether electrolysis or FUE is used. The former would be quicker (less healing time), but the later means the grafts that have been punched can be reused. 

[4chanhrn]

On 6/29/2024 at 9:58 PM, Al - Moderator said:

 

It was a good result.

 

 

 

If it was a good result, the patient wouldn't be potentially needing 3 or 4 surgeries to look acceptable.

Edited Tuesday at 08:42 PM by 4chanhrn

[BaldReaper]

hairline is good, temples are unacceptable

[HappyMan2021]

41 minutes ago, BaldReaper said:

hairline is good, temples are unacceptable

Agree

If OP told me he was 50 or older, I would say this is a 10/10 result. 

The lack of temples just really ages everything. 

While it very much is a full head of hair, and while I wouldnt necessarily call this "botched" there is room for improvement still

OPs journey is like a case study 101 on how important the temples are.

[Gatsby]

I haven't read back over the past 14 pages. However it should be common knowledge that no hair transplant is perfect. If you were to see the best hair transplant in person you will pick out the imperfections if you look hard enough. However the average person on the street who is not a member of a hair transplant forum would have no idea because they are not looking for it. Lots of people have touch ups (like I did in February) because they wanted to change some aspect of their results. Rarely is a hair transplant a one and done.

[Al - Moderator]

10 hours ago, 4chanhrn said:

If it was a good result, the patient wouldn't be potentially needing 3 or 4 surgeries to look acceptable.

 

The OP is happy with the end result which looks pretty good. All the discussion about making changes to the temple points is everyone else (myself included) critiquing it and saying what to do to try to make it more perfect. However doing something more when you already have something you're happy with does run the risk of making it worse. 

 

[BaldReaper]

11 hours ago, HappyMan2021 said:

Agree

If OP told me he was 50 or older, I would say this is a 10/10 result. 

The lack of temples just really ages everything. 

While it very much is a full head of hair, and while I wouldnt necessarily call this "botched" there is room for improvement still

OPs journey is like a case study 101 on how important the temples are.

its not just the aging part, they look really artificial, very thick grafts without irregularities