Eugenix |Norwood 2|Complete Temple Point Restoration + Hairline|May 2022|2010 Grafts|Dr Priyadarshini Das

[GeneralNorwood]

It's good to have you back @NARMAK

 

Totally random song for your welcome 😅

 

Edited July 30 by GeneralNorwood

[Melvin- Admin]

3 hours ago, NARMAK said:

I think it's probably time I have a brief update as John (Bandit90) had been in touch and during me falling off the face of the Earth so to speak it seems that there's been a lot of speculation around what happened.

Simply put. Life.

I have had a tough situation around various things and because of that I haven't really had the mental energy to try and come back here to give a proper update as I'm still dealing with a bunch of stuff.

I want to be clear though, that I haven't been given any hush hush deal by Eugenix to take some vow of silence and actually will be positing pictures as part of an update as soon as I can hopefully over the next week or so when I've had an opportunity to get some personal things in order. Here in the UK it's quite sunny at the moment so will hopefully get some shots as to how things look.

I hope this brief update will at least assuage some conspiracy theories that er...Eugenix are running a Fight Club where a free hair transplant may or may not be on the line lol. However there's nothing ominous around my disappearance from positing except some very tough personal circumstances which are ongoing still. 

I always intended to give back to the people who followed this and make sure I close things out on exactly how things went and currently standing. I'm sorry I wasn't able to get around to it earlier but it's always better to try and focus on yourself when needed imo.

Thank you for coming back, epic timing. I hope everything is okay with you 🙏. Please do not feel pressured. But we’re dying to see your results. If it’s not too much to ask, are you satisfied? That will hopefully squash the conspiracies. Though, a few users who don’t like the clinic won’t accept it, the majority of us will. 

Anywho, when im in the UK next year maybe we can get a little HRN meet up 🍻 

[FUEtile]

Just read this thread. Its a good study on how biases work for and against something. I guess thats the landscape of the internet now. You’re either pro or anti. You can’t be in the middle and objective.

[GeneralNorwood]

11 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Though, a few users who don’t like the clinic won’t accept it, the majority of us will. 

 

Yes Melvin, users who don't like the clinic are totally irrational and they bash the clinic not for poor results, but for brilliant results...

 

@FUEtile

 I don't expect botchery from his final result. But i don't expect perfect 10/10 result either.

Edited July 30 by GeneralNorwood

[NARMAK]

13 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Thank you for coming back, epic timing. I hope everything is okay with you 🙏. Please do not feel pressured. But we’re dying to see your results. If it’s not too much to ask, are you satisfied? That will hopefully squash the conspiracies. Though, a few users who don’t like the clinic won’t accept it, the majority of us will. 

Anywho, when im in the UK next year maybe we can get a little HRN meet up 🍻 

I don't think it's probably good to boil down what I want to say into a "Yes/No" scenario. I'd prefer to show pictures and give a proper write up to convey the nuance I think that hair transplants deserve to be viewed with. 

As you said, people with an axe to grind and who don't like the clinic aren't likely to take what I say and just accept it but I'd like to hope reasonable people will much more appreciate the full write up with pictures.

2 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Yes Melvin, users who don't like the clinic are totally irrational and they bash the clinic not for poor results, but for brilliant results...

 

@FUEtile

 I don't expect botchery from his final result. But i don't expect perfect 10/10 result either.

Spoiler alert, although I can't give a "Yes/No" answer, I can confirm that it's not going to be a "10/10, it's perfect" but I think again nuance is extremely important to breakdown the entire journey and results I have got after my first hair transplant and in many ways, hopefully there's a learning point for people in general looking to get hair transplants, things people going for a 2nd hair transplant might consider and even hopefully a few things in hindsight you would do differently but why you might have overlooked things 

I briefly got to see your thread and sorry to hear you didn't get the results you hoped for and are requiring further work and akin to a repair in many ways. That's always a tough thing to go through but I applaud you for handling it the best way and going to some top doctors to try and address.

In general I won't be as super active as I used to be, but I do promise I will be getting a full proper update to you guys within the time frame I stated.

[Tommy1991]

On 7/23/2024 at 8:10 PM, GeneralNorwood said:

 

That's not my theory. I doubt that he was paid off, because when something goes wrong, Eugenix doesn't care about patients. 

I vouch for this, they actually don’t even take on board the valid serious concerns!

[GoliGoliGoli]

16 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

If it’s not too much to ask, are you satisfied? That will hopefully squash the conspiracies. Though, a few users who don’t like the clinic won’t accept it, the majority of us will. 

It's peculiar how you go out of your way to misinterpret the position of the "other side". No one denies that Eugenix has a lot of very good results. It's just weird that "your side" often refuses to acknowledge their fairly well-established track record of botch jobs and patient blaming. If NARMARK is satisfied, then he joins the ranks of many other satisfied Eugenix patients. If Narmark is partially satisfied, then he joins the ranks of many other partially satisfied Eugenix patients. If NARKMARK is unsatisfied, he joins the ranks of many other unsatisfied Eugenix patients. There's no conspiracy. We just are curious what happened!

Eugenix is an interesting clinic - kind of halfway between a hairmill and a clinic. Most clinics discussed on this forum are 1 or 2 doctors at most with a single location, not a bunch of doctors with multiple locations. Eugenix is definitely not Asli Tarcan, but in fairness it has more in common with Asli Tarcan than it does with Fuegenix or BHR or a clinic like that. 

[Melvin- Admin]

18 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

It's peculiar how you go out of your way to misinterpret the position of the "other side". No one denies that Eugenix has a lot of very good results. It's just weird that "your side" often refuses to acknowledge their fairly well-established track record of botch jobs and patient blaming. If NARMARK is satisfied, then he joins the ranks of many other satisfied Eugenix patients. If Narmark is partially satisfied, then he joins the ranks of many other partially satisfied Eugenix patients. If NARKMARK is unsatisfied, he joins the ranks of many other unsatisfied Eugenix patients. There's no conspiracy. We just are curious what happened!

Eugenix is an interesting clinic - kind of halfway between a hairmill and a clinic. Most clinics discussed on this forum are 1 or 2 doctors at most with a single location, not a bunch of doctors with multiple locations. Eugenix is definitely not Asli Tarcan, but in fairness it has more in common with Asli Tarcan than it does with Fuegenix or BHR or a clinic like that. 

I don't have a side. Based on the results posted here, most of their patients are happy and satisfied. However, there have been some poor outcomes, as is the case with every clinic. However, statistically, they have more satisfied patients than dissatisfied patients. I'm afraid I have to disagree that it is 50-50, as you're insinuating, but I don't want anyone to take my word for it. 
 

You can search it yourself:

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/search/?&q=eugenix&type=forums_topic&search_and_or=or&search_in=titles

Here's a classic example of a case that was discussed as a failure, but it looks like it's turning into one of the best transformations on the forum.

I say this respectfully: you tend to sensationalize predominantly negative things regarding this clinic. Are there valid criticisms? Absolutely. Can they improve? Absolutely. Do they have cases that have missed the mark? Absolutely. But they are not the majority or close to half of the cases posted here. This is my last reply on this subject. You don't like the clinic, you think they're bad, hair mills, etc. You have made your point ad nauseam. But there must be pushback when conspiracy theories that aren't fair or based in reality start floating around.

[GeneralNorwood]

20 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Here's a classic example of a case that was discussed as a failure, but it looks like it's turning into one of the best transformations on the forum.

 

It's rather example of how patient knew better then Sethi and told him how to plan the surgery. Stuff like this can't happen with serious surgeon. 

He was coming to them and coming again and they were just putting more and more grafts on his head until donor was exhausted. I wish him the best, but certainly his history of procedures at Eugenix is not example of best HT standards. 

 

Regarding this "Narmak was silenced with some kind of deal by Eugenix" theory. As i said, i didn't believe in this, because Eugenix would rather pay for marketing to get new clients then give back money to former clients. 

But anyway, Narmak came along and debunked this funny theory, so  that's it. Just wait for his thorough relation. 

 

Another thing. We are both (i am talking about Melvin and GeneralNorwood) Eugenix's patients. We can simplify this, that one is happy and the other not.  So our perspective towards the clinic is somehow biased. And @GoliGoliGoli was never a patient of Eugenix, so there are no ulterior motives. 

Edited July 31 by GeneralNorwood

[GoliGoliGoli]

3 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I don't have a side. Based on the results posted here, most of their patients are happy and satisfied. However, there have been some poor outcomes, as is the case with every clinic. However, statistically, they have more satisfied patients than dissatisfied patients. I'm afraid I have to disagree that it is 50-50, as you're insinuating, but I don't want anyone to take my word for it. 
 

You can search it yourself:

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/search/?&q=eugenix&type=forums_topic&search_and_or=or&search_in=titles

Here's a classic example of a case that was discussed as a failure, but it looks like it's turning into one of the best transformations on the forum.

I say this respectfully: you tend to sensationalize predominantly negative things regarding this clinic. Are there valid criticisms? Absolutely. Can they improve? Absolutely. Do they have cases that have missed the mark? Absolutely. But they are not the majority or close to half of the cases posted here. This is my last reply on this subject. You don't like the clinic, you think they're bad, hair mills, etc. You have made your point ad nauseam. But there must be pushback when conspiracy theories that aren't fair or based in reality start floating around.

Definitely did not insinuate that Eugenix results were 50% good 50% bad. I have no idea what their "good"/"bad" ratio is but I'm certain that overall there is more good than bad. But despite that, I've read a good amount of their reviews and it's hard not to notice a pattern of "poor planning" that borders on negligence. This is not to mention their record patient blaming, and stories of Dr's working on 4-5 patients at once.

That said, they've also knocked it out of the park in some cases (Usually ones Sethi was heavily involved in). 

As far as Etwan's case, in a lot of ways I don't blame him for going the route he did. But at the same time Eugenix very clearly took grafts that are way outside his safe donor area. Yes yes, everyone's donor is different but let's be realistic. I'm more interested in how his results look 5 years from now more than 5 months from now so calling it a sucsessful strategy is I think premature. HT's are a marathon not a sprint, so maybe it is a great transformation but whether it's a route most people would be wise to follow is a different question. And I'm not saying he chose wrong either, it just a different question, and depends what ones individual priorities are and how much time/money one is willing to commit.  

 

Edited July 31 by GoliGoliGoli

[Bandit90]

On 7/23/2024 at 11:57 AM, Bandit90 said:

 

I kept in touch with Kamran post-op. His temples looked great and he was pleased! He actually wanted more aggressive temples than the clinic actually did. 

 

 

On 7/23/2024 at 4:31 PM, GoliGoliGoli said:

I have to say, I find it suspicious that someone would get a HT, complain about the results at 7 months, and then you hear from the guy that is all over Eugenix marketing that actually the patient was super pleased with his final results!

Not saying it didn't happen, but it's weird when someone is a very active poster and then just disappears after reporting concerns about his results at 7 months. Same thing happend with IRISHPADDY or whatever his name was after he went to Eugenix. In these cases it's always struck me as more likely that the patient wasn't pleased, but agreed to take a vow of silence in order for the clinic to work with him on fixing things. 

@GoliGoliGoli

 I found it a tad distasteful, that you essentially accused me of the fabricating the top statement to protect the clinic's interests.

I want to be clear, I am a paying customer of the clinic for all three procedures and have ZERO financial interests with them. Yes, I am on some YouTube videos, my rationale at the time when I signed that media consent form before my first procedure was that if I did this, I thought it could lead to a bit more attention to detail from Dr Sethi… literally that is it.  

The time I spend documenting my journey here and helping other patients out is completely voluntary. If people don’t think it's genuine and I'm in cahoots with the clinic,  well then I’m honestly just happy to pack it in and move on with life… trust me it’s no skin off my nose! 

Edited July 31 by Bandit90

[RTC]

Calling someone a conspiracy theorist because they have concerns about a clinic's quality and ethics sounds just like what the MSM say whenever someone has an opinion that goes against the narrative.

Sethi is a world class surgeon, but his clinic has produced some awful results which would get hammered by everyone here if they were done by non-approved HRN clinics.

The gaslighting whenever someone complains about Eugenix on here is strange, and very cult-esque. Even the way Eugenix members all act like one happy family and call each by their first names on here is just weird, I have to say.

People are sick of it to be honest.

Edited July 31 by RTC

[Fox243]

11 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

 

@GoliGoliGoli

I found it a tad distasteful, that you essentially accused me of the fabricating the top statement to protect the clinic's interests.

I want to be clear, I am paying a customer of the clinic for all three procedures and have ZERO financial interests with them. Yes, I am on some YouTube videos, my rationale at the time when I signed that media consent form before my first procedure was that if I did this, I thought it could lead to a bit more attention to detail from Dr Sethi… literally that is it.  

The time I spend documenting my journey here and helping other patients out is completely voluntary. If people don’t think it's genuine and I'm in cahoots with the clinic,  well then I’m honestly just happy to pack it in and move on with life… trust me it’s no skin off my nose! 

Hey Bandit, sorry for people gaslighting you like this. We appreciate you sharing your journey with us -- it gives a lot of NW6s and NW7s like me hope.

[Berba11]

2 hours ago, RTC said:

Calling someone a conspiracy theorist because they have concerns about a clinic's quality and ethics just sounds like what the MSM do whenever someone makes a comment they don't like.

That's not what happened though. GoliGoli aired "suspicions" that, with more care and attention to detail, were not actually suspicious at all (as I detailed on the previous page), and in the process of doing so, cast baseless insinuations upon John's integrity (I'm using his first name because I've spoken to him, know who he is - as does everyone on here - and it feels clunky to default back to a username unless tagging him).

We can quarrel over the semantics around the term "conspiracy" if we must. But GoliGoli's insinuation (probably the more apt term) was clear, without evidence and has now been fully refuted.

Goli was not expressing "concerns" on this occasion. He was allowing his dislike of the clinic (nothing wrong with disliking the clinic or some of its practices & outcomes at all by the way) to run rampant and strayed into silly territory. This is the internet after all - these things happen!

Probably best everyone moves on from this mini-episode.

Edited July 31 by Berba11

[GeneralNorwood]

Anyway... How much is the entrance fee to the Eugenix cult? 🤣

[Berba11]

2 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Anyway... How much is the entrance fee to the Eugenix cult? 🤣

You only have to reveal your real name and promise to never leave the forum under any circumstances and then you're in

[Melvin- Admin]

 

Let's get back on track, @NARMAK. I'm sorry, but this has turned into a circus. From this point on, I will remove posts that are not related to you and your journey. I hope you update us soon. If you ever need anything brotha send me a dm.

[NARMAK]

So as promised, this will be my full written update since I got my hair transplant done in May 2022. Pictures will be on a separate post.

TLDR; I'm mostly happy with the hair transplant, but there's scope for future improvements, some of which could maybe have been mitigated on the first procedure. Full details below 

So as many of you know who initially followed my thread, when I began going down the journey of looking to get my hair transplant I had one strict goal in mind. Temple points. If I couldn't get them done then I didn't honestly and genuinely see a point getting a hair transplant. The reason why is because even though I was a Norwood 2, it wouldn't have probably bothered me as much to just stick on the Dutasteride I had started in May 2021, do some microneedling and maybe try oral minoxidil if I had normal healthy temple points. Instead for as long as I can remember which is probably back to my early and mid teens, that's when I felt the temple points had basically eroded but my hairline always seemed okay in comparison. So it was extremely important to me to go to a place within my budget that would do a good job with Temple Points and searching up on YouTube when I started my journey led me to finding Eugenix who seemed to be doing probably the highest volume of temple points reconstruction and actually making it look natural as well as the hairlines.

On the journey I've already detailed due to some geopolitics that it was a pain in the behind trying to get the Visa to India despite being from the UK, so I had to move the flights around too and send many follow up emails before I finally managed to get the medical Visa. When I think back to that particular hurdle, it made me hope a lot more that I could be "One and Done" with the hair transplant and just move on with my life as many hope to without constantly worrying about your hair. Just pop a couple medications a day and get on with your life.

I also detailed from when I initially had my journey, how I felt even though I thought I knew exactly what I wanted and got a chance to talk with Dr Das the night before with pictures and concerns; Eugenix still did have a very quick process on the day of procedure in doing the hairline drawing to shaving and getting you into the OR. Maybe because of that I didn't spot the (probably to others), perceived minor difference in the temple points where one side was a touch sharper angled than the other. I think I would have probably adjusted that a bit more in hindsight but to be clear, it isn't breaking the result at all. Some will say that difference might even be helping with it still looking more natural. I had also talked with Dr Das about making the temple points more dense, and although the number was probably more than double the 150 or so that initially I was quoted; when I looked back on the post op images I have noticed that there was more "gaps" a la spacing compared to say the density that the hairline had than would've been ideal for my temple points density in hindsight perhaps.

Over 2 years later, I believe I've now got 100% growth and maturity for the surviving implanted grafts along the hairline and temple points. I also think along the way, still having been using Dutasteride for like 3+ years now, it could have helped a bit as well with keeping hair slightly thicker. I was worried about the crown area feeling a bit thin when I had started Dutasteride and know some crown hair loss is common so hoped this would be helped with the medication and I think it has, but also I have to remind myself the crown sits in a way where it's probably the thinnest feeling part of our hair, so being paranoid also probably plays a part 

The temple points to be frank do not look as dense as I had hoped. The hair chosen for the temple points however appears to have definitely been the correct choice. Thinner and natural looking hair for the temple points which whilst looking like the temple points are "thinning" to a degree compared to the hairline area due to density, actually still retain a natural look in appearance if that makes sense. I also initially commented on a previous update that the angles of the implanted temple points weren't the same on both sides. The right side are really flush and tight to the temple how they should be whereas the left side aren't as tight and this again is an area that doesn't break the result per se, but it cannot be given a "perfect" rating for obvious reasons.

Given the thinning looks of the temple points, it feels like a 2nd procedures definitely needed to help make it more dense and natural looking as if it isn't thinning out due to MPB. If I was to take a unqualified personal guess and the same quality of hair could be used which is the right kind to give a natural looking result, and roughly 400-450 or so grafts were to be used per temple points to fill in those areas ( HUGE number I know) in between and around the outer triangle, I think it would eliminate the need to rely on an "illusion" of density by keeping the hair longer and let me pull off shorter hairstyles if needed, but generally I actually prefer having a slightly longer hairstyle than the skin fades people have but having appropriately dense temple points is necessary for the balance of the hair transplant overall imo.

Moving to the hairline, I called out previously during my initial updates how there seemed to be a bit more doubles at the front and a "line" along the left side of my hairline near the front with the grafts. Since everything has grown in, I don't really think those doubles I noticed initially are negatively impacting the overall result from looking significantly less natural, but again if we're going to critique things not done "perfect" then it's a point to touch on. The "line" I mentioned also is something I said was part of the initial placements of grafts along the hairline where perhaps the pattern wasn't as "irregularly regular" if that kinda makes sense as it could have been and that's still true as of the final growth and maturity imo when you hold the hair back but it could be seen as a "nitpick" and I do not want anybody under any illusions; the choice of hair and placement is probably head and shoulders above any hair mill or other clinics that claim they're better just because they're based in the UK, US etc. 

I think when you look at the pictures you will see proper caliber of hair chosen and enough irregularity for it to err much more on the side of looking natural than a hair mill "Drake Hairline" they give to everyone and their granddad in Turkey etc. So I'm trying to judge things objectively but fair. With that in mind, I think for a first pass the Hairline area for those that want a scoring system of sorts is probably a solid 7 or 7.5/10 in terms of the objective assessment for the work Eugenix did on my first procedure. I think I knock it slightly for the less irregularity in the design along the frontal area of the hairline and the slightly more visible doubles towards the front like a "line" than probably should have been there. However and this is really important to note, Dr Das and the Eugenix team actually set a solid foundation for any 2nd procedure that could be used to add density into the frontal hairline as well as even refining it to give it an even more natural look with more singles and "feather" the frontal area with density and irregularity to appear like a completely natural non-MPB hairline. 

The temple points I am going to be honest, I am "grading" them much harsher and that's purely down to several factors. One is the difference in the angles of implantation. Another is that there maybe could have been more density done with the spacing of grafts on the temple points being the same as say the hairline graft implantations. The other is that I think there's areas where on the outer part it looks a bit "gappy" more than the general thinner look due to the current density but also in particular there's a slight "disconnect" between parts of the temple points that connect into the hairline area. Now I currently have my hair fairly long and the longer lengths generally "fall over" the temple point corners where the temple points and hairline meet, so on a day to day basis this doesn't particularly bother me and even if I was to say tie back the hair loosely into a ponytail, it isn't horrendously done to the point I would hide away and want to put say a hat on. 

I generally am happier with the hair now than I was before. I look in the mirror and even seeing the temple points as they are now I can generally smile under regular natural light because the framing I feel it has given my face feels much better than before. It's a more youthful looking hairline imo but the temple points even as they currently stand have probably helped a lot in that framing.

I'm more harsh on that because I suppose out of the hairline and temple points they were more important to me and seeing them lag more behind combined with the personal difficulty of trying to get to India with the Visa kerfuffle, it left me a touch sad if you will that they didn't quite reach the same heights of the hairline.

However, I think it's significantly important to also highlight that hair transplants almost never should be seen as a "One and Done". That's how hair mills typically operate and offer men high density "Drake hairlines" and then basically deplete their donor areas for a pluggy looking mess of a hairline and with badly angled placement with almost no room to manoeuvre. For me, Eugenix has done nothing of the sort in comparison really. If anything Dr Das has helped me create the best foundation to build off of and listened to me to achieve a design that hopefully can be "finished off" so to speak with a 2nd procedure for refinement in density on both the temple points, hairline and even add a bit more natural looking irregularity alongside the density.

I feel more confident and can smile more looking in the mirror overall with what is most certainly a better hairline than I started with. I want there to be no doubt that I believe overall I have had a positive general outcome compared to say anywhere you can go and end up with horrendous issues.

I think the hair chosen was correct for the temple points. Perhaps the guess on the grafts required for density was "off" but then I think to myself that you have to be sensible and think "okay, so what if they stuffed the temple points to the gills and the hair didn't grow and I ended up with the same density". Those grafts that didn't take now are a "waste" and this is why I think it's extremely important to educate ourselves on what realistically we should be looking to achieve with a first hair transplant procedure even as I try to remain as objective and fair in assessment of my own results.

I personally like to think of myself like the many, many people out there trying to deal with their hair loss and as such part of the average person. I never would advise anybody to go into hair loss medication, regimens or even a transplant and expect "perfection" because it's an extremely elusive and moving target for many different people. Instead I would like to hope if you all managed to read up to this point, you've seen I've tried to state as many objective parts of the hair transplant procedure when it comes to design elements, angles, density and so on than the subjective side where on the part of Eugenix, there's areas where maybe things could have been improved upon during the first procedure even if you consider it "marginal".

I'm grateful I could find a place that was within my budget and helped me feel so much at ease with their hospitality in a foreign country, whilst listening to what I wanted and doing their best to make that happen. Although I think I will need a 2nd procedure to "finish things off" in a way I can truly be happy with, that is the reality of probably 95% of first hair transplants and even moreso those that are done with the largely correct and objective methods when they carry out a hair transplant.

If a first hair transplant is to set a foundation, then overall I think Dr Das and the team at Eugenix helped build one on a solid grounding with the scope to refine things. Something I probably wouldn't be saying had I not educated myself and ended up in a hair mill promising the world and delivering absolute misery for me to look into the mirror daily.

I know a lot of people have been critical of certain things around Eugenix and so on. I haven't been around since I last properly really posted all those months and months ago, so please take my words as being a candid assessment of my own personal experience all the way back to when I had my hair transplant with Dr Das in May 2022. By no means can I call this a "perfect first hair transplant" because objectively there's areas that could've been improved from how things were done and some areas that are part of the unknown; even with some hindsight such as whether increased density in the temple points 100% would have guaranteed that "one and done" feeling. I think deep down almost all veteran hair transplant patients know that their 2nd or even 3rd procedures are what truly made them feel like they had got there with what they hoped to achieve.

I don't know if there's an objective "10/10" scale we can really use for hair transplants and there's probably some "human factors" that could even be down to our own bodies, the actions of doctors and techs etc. That said, I think sensibly nothing in this world or realistically is a "10/10" so my personal grading would max out as a 9.5/10. Again if I'm going to stick things on a scale with numbers, hopefully having tried to be as objective as possible. I could probably say the hairline stands at a solid 7.5/10 or even 8/10 generally looking in the mirror under non-harsh lighting for a first procedure. Even I think under Sun it still holds up well but obviously we should all know that harsh lighting/sun is the enemy of a hair transplant when it comes to exposing the lower than natural hair density. Some of you eagle eyed folks will say that's higher than what rating I gave it above initially and that's probably because I'm also including the day to day subjective feeling of how I feel it generally looks at a typical distance looking in the mirror, whereas the initial score above is just my assessment of it from an objective technical PoV only.

The temple points I think again I have to be more harsh with because they're the entire reason I decided to go on this journey. Objectively if I try to look at them in the outcome 2+ years later after they have matured, with the way they look, I think I feel like they sit at a solid 6/10 for the result I have got if I try and combine my objective and subjective view on them. Now, obviously with the pictures I have below you all are definitely going to have your own opinions on this and think maybe I'm being much more critical than the outcome you feel I have got. Completely understandable and that's what's great about having a forum. For reference having looked back at the white board with graft counts, it appears they listed down the Right Temple as having 330 grafts and 400 grafts for the Left Temple upon completion of both days.

My temple points were pretty much non-existent I think it's fair to say, and where they are now alongside the new hairline design is a better place than where I was before the hair transplant. Melvin will probably be more than helpful in probably doing a Before and After side by side or up/down. 

I don't think trusting Eugenix for my hair transplant was ever a mistake and think many of you will probably say this has been a fantastic outcome overall from the starting point I had even as a Norwood 2 and rate it a bit higher on the temple points and hairline than I did. Perhaps that's symptomatic of why most of us end up with "hair greed" and end up wanting that 2nd or 3rd procedure not long after. As I said, Eugenix have set a solid foundation. A 2nd and more than likely final procedure though is probably needed, to address the areas I hopefully have remained as objective as I could on saying needed a bit more attention even during the first procedure.

I think our eyes are the best judge of things in real life, as I honestly don't think pictures always capture certain things we notice say in the mirror with our own eyes where things feel a touch "off". So if you guys are looking at the pictures but been through a procedure yourselves you may already kind of know what I am talking about.

I am just going to consider myself very fortunate to have been able to educate myself around MPB, hair transplants and through this site connect with great guys like John @Bandit90 who kindly met me in person and helped settle me into what to expect whilst in a foreign country at Eugenix as well as many other things when I got my procedure done, as well as helping keep us all informed on his own journey. I would also like to acknowledge the help all the others like Armen @MazAB and @Berba11 have given me along the way as well when I initially undertook the research into this hair transplant journey and others hopefully know who they are even if I hadn't been able to name you specifically in this post and ultimately I think we all truly hope for the best outcome for each and every person dealing with this horrible, horrible thing called MPB.

Since I last visited this forum, it seems some of you have had some amazing outcomes and even been for 2nd and 3rd times so I truly hope you all found the happiness you hoped to get. 😁

I will probably be popping my head into the forum time to time to reply on this thread and maybe contribute elsewhere, and as I still think a 2nd procedure is on the future horizon, I hope I can post any updates on my journey here should I get that 2nd procedure done and fingers crossed resolve those life situations that have currently been taking up a lot of my attention and energy. 

[NARMAK]

Pictures.

[MazAB]

Kamran, awesome writeup, and even better results. I do agree, the most important thing to remember is that hair transplants are not perfect with coverage and overall density, but so long as you have 100% naturalism, you've won that round, and you most certainly are victorious by any standards for a 1st procedure. 

A 2nd procedure you can and should absolutely consider if it helps you reach your goals. Sprinkle in more density across the hairline and temple points and seal the deal for a lifetime of gorgeous hair my friend!

Hope all is well! It's great hearing from you my brother! 

[NARMAK]

10 minutes ago, MazAB said:

Kamran, awesome writeup, and even better results. I do agree, the most important thing to remember is that hair transplants are not perfect with coverage and overall density, but so long as you have 100% naturalism, you've won that round, and you most certainly are victorious by any standards for a 1st procedure. 

A 2nd procedure you can and should absolutely consider if it helps you reach your goals. Sprinkle in more density across the hairline and temple points and seal the deal for a lifetime of gorgeous hair my friend!

Hope all is well! It's great hearing from you my brother! 

Thanks Armen. Honestly I was thinking of yourself and how you felt after your first procedure and the way you talked about your temple points in particular and even going so far as to lowering the hairline with a 2nd procedure.

I think you're spot on about things needing to look natural and in that sense, I think almost nobody I ever met would really be able to call it out as a pluggy looking mess or anything of the sort. 

The hair is also tied back loosely so when I looked back at these pictures I felt like the way the hair gets tied up can also make things look a bit different so I'm going to try get some pictures where the hairs maybe not tied up for people to see too. I'm just not the best at taking the pictures, so gonna need a little patience and sun to come back out here in the UK.

I think a last and final procedure with a 2nd round for density and refinement would probably be able to firmly close the chapter on this journey but man, that green eyed hair greed will probably sting me good and I'll be thinking of a 3rd probably lol

[MazAB]

20 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

Thanks Armen. Honestly I was thinking of yourself and how you felt after your first procedure and the way you talked about your temple points in particular and even going so far as to lowering the hairline with a 2nd procedure.

I think you're spot on about things needing to look natural and in that sense, I think almost nobody I ever met would really be able to call it out as a pluggy looking mess or anything of the sort. 

The hair is also tied back loosely so when I looked back at these pictures I felt like the way the hair gets tied up can also make things look a bit different so I'm going to try get some pictures where the hairs maybe not tied up for people to see too. I'm just not the best at taking the pictures, so gonna need a little patience and sun to come back out here in the UK.

I think a last and final procedure with a 2nd round for density and refinement would probably be able to firmly close the chapter on this journey but man, that green eyed hair greed will probably sting me good and I'll be thinking of a 3rd probably lol

Haha! I'd be lying if I didn't say that a 3rd and final hair greed procedure wasn't somewhere in the cards for me at some point, LOL!!!

[GeneralNorwood]

On 8/5/2024 at 12:32 AM, NARMAK said:

 I also initially commented on a previous update that the angles of the implanted temple points weren't the same on both sides. The right side are really flush and tight to the temple how they should be whereas the left side aren't as tight and this again is an area that doesn't break the result per se, but it cannot be given a "perfect" rating for obvious reasons.

 

 

The same thing happened in my case too. I won't flood this topic with my photos, you can check out my temple points on page 10 and 14 in my topic. 

So as you know, i had multiple consultations with top-surgeons. One of the surgeons asked me "So there were 2 guys doing temple points, 1 for each?".

I confirmed and he said that this is obvious that the technician who is doing right temple point is just better then technician doing left temple point. 

 

On 8/5/2024 at 12:32 AM, NARMAK said:

 

The temple points to be frank do not look as dense as I had hoped. The hair chosen for the temple points however appears to have definitely been the correct choice. Thinner and natural looking hair for the temple points which whilst looking like the temple points are "thinning" to a degree compared to the hairline area due to density, actually still retain a natural look in appearance if that makes sense. I also initially commented on a previous update that the angles of the implanted temple points weren't the same on both sides. The right side are really flush and tight to the temple how they should be whereas the left side aren't as tight and this again is an area that doesn't break the result per se, but it cannot be given a "perfect" rating for obvious reasons.

Given the thinning looks of the temple points, it feels like a 2nd procedures definitely needed to help make it more dense and natural looking as if it isn't thinning out due to MPB.

 

I had 720 grafts fot the temple points, you had similar number. But i think you can agree, that my temple points look more dense. 

The most important reason for that is that the area of implantation was definitely larger in your case, which means less grafts/cm2. It's clearly visible when we compare our post-op photos taken by Eugenix.

And the second reason is that in my case, they used thicker hair for the temporal points. So they did a sloppy job that adds density in exchange for losing naturalness. Dr Zarev showed me on  microcamera footage, that one of the thickest hairs that was implanted in my case was used for the temple points... 

I think we both fell victim to the marketing promising amazing temple points , but we got something average.

Of course, I agree that you can look at it from the bright side and these results are something that can be improved.

However, the motto of Eugenix "do it once do it right " loses its meaning in this case

Edited August 5 by GeneralNorwood

[NARMAK]

1 hour ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

The same thing happened in my case too. I won't flood this topic with my photos, you can check out my temple points on page 10 and 14 in my topic. 

So as you know, i had multiple consultations with top-surgeons. One of the surgeons asked me "So there were 2 guys doing temple points, 1 for each?".

I confirmed and he said that this is obvious that the technician who is doing right temple point is just better then technician doing left temple point. 

 

 

I had 720 grafts fot the temple points, you had similar number. But i think you can agree, that my temple points look more dense. 

The most important reason for that is that the area of implantation was definitely larger in your case, which means less grafts/cm2. It's clearly visible when we compare our post-op photos taken by Eugenix.

And the second reason is that in my case, they used thicker hair for the temporal points. So they did a sloppy job that adds density in exchange for losing naturalness. Dr Zarev showed me on  microcamera footage, that one of the thickest hairs that was implanted in my case was used for the temple points... 

I think we both fell victim to the marketing promising amazing temple points , but we got something average.

Of course, I agree that you can look at it from the bright side and these results are something that can be improved.

However, the motto of Eugenix "do it once do it right " loses its meaning in this case

I think it's always wise to understand that marketing for any business in any industry is designed to get you through the door or to buy their products/services. Eugenix as such aren't necessarily doing anything unethical in that way and I suppose it's a matter of interpretation. Obviously as you said for your particular case and whatever happened specifically related to that is your own personal and obviously valid perspective for the outcome you have had.

For me personally, I guess I can agree that my temple points most definitely were a much larger undertaking in terms of how big the size of them was for essentially reconstructing from scratch. I also touched on how had my temple points been bulked up a lot more that there's also a potential Catch 22 situation that could have happened. Obviously we'll never know and we can only be fair to go on the situation as it stands. I do think the implantation by the techs could very well be the cause of the difference in the angles on one side being more flush, but the calibre of hair at least to me seems to be the correct choice. The issue is the size of the temple points and current density but this can be hopefully addressed with a 2nd procedure.

People can obviously form their own opinions on whether that should have been the case or not, but I would probably like to remind people in general that almost nobody out there when I looked seemed to be doing the volume of temple points restorations or in general touching them during a hair transplant. Very few and usually quite expensive(?) Drs seemed to be trying to do them and even then nothing of the size I wanted fully reconstructed.

In my case it's moreso a personal feeling of having gone through such an arduous journey to get them done and having a lighter visual appearance make me put the "score" if you will at 6/10 but I again would like to mention I don't think anything truly gets a "10/10" mark realistically. It tops out at 9.5/10 imo.

On a technical level, I think overall the correct approach was made and where there could have been maybe some improvements I've tried to be honest and highlighted for people to have an honest assessment of my results as they stand for me personally right now.

I think a 2nd procedures probably needed for most as I said for density and some refinement. I suppose "Do it Once, Do It Right" as a motto to me means that if you did only go through it once, choosing a place that doesn't deplete your donor, botch the naturalness of the result and so on is what Eugenix are aiming for. In their country where it seems hair mills are also quite abundant, perhaps they're the best national option for most. I'm not saying that definitively but I'm just saying from my own limited observation and knowledge from back when I did my research it seemed to be the case.

I know you are currently going with Dr Zarev and truly wish you all the best in getting the result you want. For me personally, I think like I said I'm the same as many of the average people out there who usually get a 1st procedure and realise we want some more density and to do that as well as refine, you need a 2nd pass. Obviously that doesn't change the fact I would have loved to see the temple points looking that little bit more full and juicy lol

[Al - Moderator]

On 8/4/2024 at 6:32 PM, NARMAK said:

The temple points I think again I have to be more harsh with because they're the entire reason I decided to go on this journey. Objectively if I try to look at them in the outcome 2+ years later after they have matured, with the way they look, I think I feel like they sit at a solid 6/10 for the result I have got if I try and combine my objective and subjective view on them. Now, obviously with the pictures I have below you all are definitely going to have your own opinions on this and think maybe I'm being much more critical than the outcome you feel I have got. Completely understandable and that's what's great about having a forum. For reference having looked back at the white board with graft counts, it appears they listed down the Right Temple as having 330 grafts and 400 grafts for the Left Temple upon completion of both days.

 

I think your temple points look pretty good. It's better to be too thin than to be too thick. The hair is facing the right direction and blends in well.