Senior Member Time to do something Posted October 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 Here is what someone said. I'd like opinions. Thanks First of all, I regret having HT's in the first place. I was a NW5 pre-HT, and for my hair type and characteristics, HT's were a huge mistake. However, "type and characterisitics" really don't matter much when you are a NW5. With that being said, I wish that instead of them puting all my grafts up front (like I asked them not to do), that they all would have been put in the crown and vertex. Then my crown and top would look good, and I could grow my hair long, and just comb the hair on top forward. I have had 3 HT's and most of the grafts went into the hairline, and it blows. There is not enough density for it not to be "see-through" for my hair type (even if all my donor was used up doing this). In my case, puting a piece behind my "frontal" would look awful, just plain awful...and even more obvious. Like I said, I regret not forcing my HT surgeons to put all of my grafts in the crown, and vertex (the top), and work their way forward. Because I was a NW5, I am stuck with the typical "frontal HT with a hole in the back" which looks obvious (and detectable) because no normal balding pattern even remotely resembles the way it it looks. "Frontal" HT's don't fool anyone...as soon as you turn your head sideways, or when people can see the back of your head, your "frontal" becomes laughable. (Can you say Joe Biden? ) With that being said, what happens if you get HT's to give yourself a complete "frontal" (use all your donor up in the process) and you find out that the piece looks obvious behind "transplanted" hair? And transplanted hair does not always "blend in" too well with natural hair (let alone fake hair), particularly in the "border" regions - even when the best surgeon in the world does your HT. Basically my HT's transformed me from a normal bald guy into a weird looking bald guy who has had "something weird" done to his hair. I strongly urge guys getting HT's to really weigh all of their options and do plenty of research. Otherwise, they could wind up like me...going from "bad" to "worse" as far as hair...and paying major $$$$ for it. Oh, and having a "strip scar" also blows. I would give anything not to have one from ear to ear. If I didn't have the donor scar, I could (and I most definately would) just shave my head. I was bald, and I should have just shaved and never looked back. But I chose the wrong path for me...the "HT path." NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Montana Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 It's unfortunate that you went through the ordeal that you describe. However, I thank you for your very detailed post. It provides a good balance to the glowing ads on TV and print media. I have been balding for ~ 20 years. Only now have I started to consider my options and started 5% minoxidil only 1 week ago. My dermatologist suggested Propecia. I have been thinking about hair transplants but after reading your post I decided to continue minoxidil. If that does not work to any significant/noticeable degree (I'll give it a year) I am inclined to just shave the dome. Again, thanks for the post and good luck finding a satisfactory solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted October 17, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 Thanks Tony Montana-I'm not the one who wrote that nor went through that, it is what someone else went through and I just posted their email. I was looking for opinions as to whether this sounded accurate. I'm not disputing him but some of the things in the email went against what I've read. I want to know as much as I can before making a mistake so I'm looking for the opinions of others in regards to what this guy had to say. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member kaounis Posted October 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 HT's, for all intense purposes, are actually straightforward and simple....you move hair from one place to another....how hard can it be, right? Wrong...angle, placement,density..etc.,etc.,...Those with high NW levels, will never have any true density, they will have coverage, but the rest is just an illusion....Those with minimal loss, who are looking for the "perfect" head of hair, think that they can go into existing native hair, to "thicken" it up a bit...sometimes suffer permanant shock-loss, and end up back where they were before, or worse...it can be a no win situation...I beleive that HT's are only for a select group of people...those who fully understand what can be acomplished, have resonable expectations, good hair characteristics, 35 and over, good donor density,or at least average, can afford it,low skin to hair contrast, etc.,...I think you get the picture... Just a thought from the peanut gallery.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mattj Posted October 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 Originally posted by Time to do something:Thanks Tony Montana-I'm not the one who wrote that nor went through that, it is what someone else went through and I just posted their email. It really came across like you were talking about yourself and your work with Dr Epstein. I am a patient and representative of Dr Rahal. My FUE Procedure With Dr Rahal - Awesome Hairline Result I can be contacted for advice: matt@rahalhairline.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member spin266 Posted October 17, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 time,this post is confusing it does lead the reader to believe you are unhappy with YOURhts.have you had any hts yourself.and what exactly are you looking for the ppost is misleading and confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Severn Posted October 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 Well, there is something to be said for covering the crown and combing forward a bit. I've seen this on naturally balding guys and it looks fine. I personally think it looks better than a fully restored hairline with a big bald spot. However most prefer to have their face framed and work from front to back. My Hair Loss Web Site - Dr. Ron Shapiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Forrest Gump Posted October 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 Kaounis makes a good point. In almost all cases, no amount of HT surgeries from even the best doctors will give someone their original head of hair. At the most, there would be some coverage and some illusion of density. Maybe for a very small percentage of patients, who have had very minimal hairloss, there might be scope for achieving true density, but such cases are rare, and also susceptible to other risks (such as shock loss issues). IMO, before going for a HT one should have realistic expectations and be aware of the limitations of HT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mp96 Posted October 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 I don't find this post "misleading or confusing" one bit. I think many guys jump in this hair transplant thing without knowing the possible consequences of this difficult procedure... For myself, I honestly wish I found this site before my first hair transplant. I really do think I would of never went through with it if I knew all the consequences. Guess we can just live and learn!! Oh one more thing, Dr Epstein is not the only doc with unhappy patients... I know this for certain IMO. Thought I'd point that out for you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted October 17, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 Originally posted by mattj:Originally posted by Time to do something:Thanks Tony Montana-I'm not the one who wrote that nor went through that, it is what someone else went through and I just posted their email. It really came across like you were talking about yourself and your work with Dr Epstein. Sorry, that is why I stated at the beginning "Here is what someone said". I guess I should have been more clear. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted October 17, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 Originally posted by spin266:time,this post is confusing it does lead the reader to believe you are unhappy with YOURhts.have you had any hts yourself.and what exactly are you looking for the ppost is misleading and confusing Again-let me re-explain myself. This is an email from someone else describing their experience. Some of it contradicted what I have read in the past and wanted other posters opinion. This will hopefully clear up any confusion. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member thanatopsis_awry Posted October 17, 2009 Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 What did it "contradict"? I think that's the key thing that needs to be made clear so as to evaluate the contention(s) being made by either camp. ----------- *A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics* 1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash. Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician. Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted October 17, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 17, 2009 Originally posted by thanatopsis_awry:What did it "contradict"? I think that's the key thing that needs to be made clear so as to evaluate the contention(s) being made by either camp. Yes, I found some of the statements in this email to be contradictory to what I've read in other places. I found the email intriguing and want to investigate further but can't reach the person who wrote it. They indicate their transplant was a huge mistake for their type of hair type and characteristics. They said they wish all of their grafts had been placed on the crown. From what I've read the crown is a 'hair pit' meaning it takes a huge amount of grafts to cover it adequately. It sounds like what they are saying is they would have preferred a comb over brushed forward. Couldn't they also achieved the same effect if the grafts were placed in the front and had a comb over brushed back? They said a hair piece behind their frontal would look awful and even more obvious. My stylist has shown me other clients with this and I couldn't notice anything that looked fake or obvious. How long ago did they have their transplant? They compare it to Joe Biden. They are right his is very detectable but the advancements in the past five years down to the single graft has made them undetectable and I've seen many people with transplants using the newer procedures who I'd never be able to tell. In the hands of the right doctor strip scars and hardly noticeable. He is basing his views on his experience but I wonder why his experience is so different from other opinions I've read on here. That is why I'm saying his contradicts other statements. I'm not saying his statements aren't valid for his experience just different from others I've read. All I can imagine is he had a procedure long ago by a bad surgeon. I just want to make sure from other posters that this isn't what I've got to look forward to. I'm sure others out there have read something that scares them and wants confirmation on the validity. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Al - Moderator Posted October 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2009 I agree with the original post almost 100%. I don't want a huge bald circle in the back of my head. I'd rather have the HT be a bit thinner and cover the entire area. I also tried wearing a hair system behind the HT in front, but couldn't pull it off because the frontal hair was too thin, high, unnatural looking to look right with a hair system behind it. If you know you want the back covered and you know you are OK with wearing a hair system then cover the front half first to a point where it's thick enough to be acceptable to you while still leaving some donor grafts available. Then try the hair piece behind it and see if you can live with that for a while. If not then use up the remaining grafts to give a thin coverage to the back. This can be a good idea to use the hair system on the back for a few years and then as you get older and may be more comfortable with a thin area in back, then go back and transplsnt that area and do away with the hair system. That was my plan, but the HT Dr insisted on covering the back first just to prove that I didn't need the hair system at all. Don't let that happen to you. Al Forum Moderator (formerly BeHappy) I am a paid forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Ventuoguy Posted October 22, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 22, 2009 I want to know as much as I can before making a mistake so I'm looking for the opinions of others in regards to what this guy had to say. Time-you quote this line above, yet it appears you've already had TWO procedures with Dr. Epstein. What do you mean when you say you want information "BEFORE making a mistake.."?? Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Blond Posted October 22, 2009 Regular Member Share Posted October 22, 2009 Originally posted by BeHappy:If you know you want the back covered and you know you are OK with wearing a hair system then cover the front half first to a point where it's thick enough to be acceptable to you while still leaving some donor grafts available. BeHappy, This is EXACTLY my plan! I always thought the reason why sometimes this approach doesn't work was due to the patient not being brave enough to go for a high density at the front hair line and temples. Perhaps there is more to it than that, like hair characteristics etc. In terms of wearing a hair piece behind a thin transplanted hair line, I believe hair systmes now-a-days can be of a low density. Do you think that would help or not? Blond. ----------------------------- PhD (Experimental and Clinical medicine) 1.25mg Finasteride Minoxidil 5% (EOD) Nizoral 1% (x3/week) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted October 22, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2009 I'm having a third procedure. Hope that clears up any confusion. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted October 22, 2009 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2009 Originally posted by Blondie:Originally posted by BeHappy:If you know you want the back covered and you know you are OK with wearing a hair system then cover the front half first to a point where it's thick enough to be acceptable to you while still leaving some donor grafts available. BeHappy, This is EXACTLY my plan! I always thought the reason why sometimes this approach doesn't work was due to the patient not being brave enough to go for a high density at the front hair line and temples. Perhaps there is more to it than that, like hair characteristics etc. In terms of wearing a hair piece behind a thin transplanted hair line, I believe hair systmes now-a-days can be of a low density. Do you think that would help or not? Yes, hair pieces may be made at any density. I've seen numerous guys with a crown piece and the ones I've seen are undetectable. If someone has one that doesn't blend it is probably a low quality one done by a non professional. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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