Eugenix (Drs. Das/Somesh/Vinita) | 11,102 grafts | NW 6/7 | 28 yrs old | 2022/2023/2024

[caveman]

Also, I was just going over John’s case (which I use as a benchmark for growth) and here is a picture of his crown at 6 months - I hope you don’t mind me posting it here.

But his density seems close to what you have now at this point so I’m confident that with time your crown will fill up. Also as you grow that hair a bit longer it will cover up the horseshoe shape

 

 

[baldDick666]

3 hours ago, general-etwan said:

Just found this fascinating and I'm really struggling to understand what's going on here.

@general-etwan

Did you ask the clinic?
Discussed your concernrs?

And if so .. what did they tell you? ...

I assume it was sth like:
"It all on track as per month (2/3/4/5/6/7whatever)"
"Be patient - full growth is after 12 months ... ([transalting to human readable] so do not bother us)"
"Everyone has different hair growth cycle ([transalting to human readable] so do not comapre to other(s) and do not bther us ... for sure you are slow grower :D)"
"Please continue taking medications ([transalting to human readable] probably slow growth is due to not taking 69 pills a day)"

Am I right?


PS
Also it is worth noticing that @Bandit90 case was done differently:

The whole process:
1st stage => front and miscalp leaving crown completely bald (as you @general-etwan drawn in other topic)
2nd stage => crown
3rd stage => check if soem areas to fix ... and fix them all

Plus @Bandit90 is one of the "faces" of the clinic, I could even say like a ready to use marketing product => so gor sure he was given all the best (planning, time, technicans, discounts and other facilities) to be a living example of what can be achieved with HT. SO for sure he was treated much better than just another random guy

BTW
@general-etwan wishing you alll th best and hoping for huuuge growth !!!

[Fox243]

6 hours ago, general-etwan said:

Yeah I understand, I don't like these topics either. However, I could only find case reports of very rare instances of this pericardial effusion instance, and at least the one I read was 56 yr old man with chronic hypertension, and who knows what other health problems. In these cases, oral minox has been the suspected cause, but it's short of pure chemical evidence...maybe just a limitation of current scientific study to date. There seems to be a 3% occurrence rate of pericardial effusion at dosages 10mg+, so at 2.5 mg I feel safe trying it for a little to see. Pericardial effusion from minoxidil is also said to be a idiosyncratic drug reaction, meaning no scientific link has really been proven and the cases of it seem to be rare and unpredictable. 

In my case, I just decided to give it a try. If it really strengthens my hair and I have no side effects, great...if it doesn't do much, then I wouldn't keep taking it.

I’d also wanna add that depending how averse you are to minoxidil, to be careful 1) adding it while your transplant is still growing (takes 8-10 months for it to mostly mature) 2) stacking with Koshine. The point of meds is to find the least amount of meds that will give you the hair you want to take for lifetime. If you start getting good results in the next 3 months, you won’t be able to separate whether it’s the transplant, min, or koshine. 

[Fox243]

5 hours ago, general-etwan said:

So I want to share these comparisons, as I'm a bit confused and bamboozled by the apparent boundary of my "NW" horseshoe line.

Remember a few pages back, after my recent fade haircut, I talked about how it didn't seem that Eugenix extracted all the way "up" to the boundary of my DHT-resistant donor hair? 

Well, based on these comparison pics from immediately before vs. after HT #3, it appears they did go all the way "up" to the sharp edge at the time of the HT. These pics are taken from the same exact angle in the same lighting conditions in their studio. I made the red dots on the left to attempt to match about where they went up to with the extractions, which is pretty much exactly along the sharp boundary.

 

Now, in my pics of my short fade cut from a few weeks ago, you can clearly see the top edge of the extraction scars, yet there is a cm or so above that which now appears to be dark and thick hair. These two pics below aren't at exactly the same angle but they are pretty close. The red circles are my attempt to identify the same exact spot on the scalp. On the left, day of HT #3, that region between the black lines appears to be decently thinned hair, which is why they didn't extract that high. On the right, a few weeks ago, the hair between those black lines looks darker and thicker.

So, either the boundary of the "horseshoe ring" has risen over the past 5 months, or this just an illusion of some sort; or the picture on the left is washed out with white light and appears lighter because of that (?) But the picture on the left was taken with a far more professional camera of Eugenix than the one on the right which is just my iPhone camera, so...it's hard for me to understand how this could be an illusion.

Just found this fascinating and I'm really struggling to understand what's going on here.

I would agree with @caveman that there's probably too much "noise" to discern from the reality. Like there's a lot of things affecting hair such as seasonality to the point that you want to extract from that area as it may not truly be safe. 

I would say that the professional camera would be able to better pick up on minuaritized regions than an iphone camera. You also have a fade in the after pic which helps remove the contrast between minuatirized and terminal hairs.

[HimalayanFollicle]

15 hours ago, general-etwan said:

So I want to share these comparisons, as I'm a bit confused and bamboozled by the apparent boundary of my "NW" horseshoe line.

Remember a few pages back, after my recent fade haircut, I talked about how it didn't seem that Eugenix extracted all the way "up" to the boundary of my DHT-resistant donor hair? 

Well, based on these comparison pics from immediately before vs. after HT #3, it appears they did go all the way "up" to the sharp edge at the time of the HT. These pics are taken from the same exact angle in the same lighting conditions in their studio. I made the red dots on the left to attempt to match about where they went up to with the extractions, which is pretty much exactly along the sharp boundary.

 

Now, in my pics of my short fade cut from a few weeks ago, you can clearly see the top edge of the extraction scars, yet there is a cm or so above that which now appears to be dark and thick hair. These two pics below aren't at exactly the same angle but they are pretty close. The red circles are my attempt to identify the same exact spot on the scalp. On the left, day of HT #3, that region between the black lines appears to be decently thinned hair, which is why they didn't extract that high. On the right, a few weeks ago, the hair between those black lines looks darker and thicker.

So, either the boundary of the "horseshoe ring" has risen over the past 5 months, or this just an illusion of some sort; or the picture on the left is washed out with white light and appears lighter because of that (?) But the picture on the left was taken with a far more professional camera of Eugenix than the one on the right which is just my iPhone camera, so...it's hard for me to understand how this could be an illusion.

Just found this fascinating and I'm really struggling to understand what's going on here.

Even if they extracted grafts all the way 'up' to the sharp edge during the HT, they didn't transplant them all the way 'down' to the sharp edge. This is something I've noticed consistently across nearly all transplants performed at Eugenix. The boundary of the "horseshoe ring" might have risen over the past 5 months but on what basis would they anticipate that this will happen to you. 

Take @Bandit90's case, for example. Even there, you can see a gap between the extraction zone and the recipient area. There must be a solid reason for this approach, and it’s something I’ve been curious about for quite some time.

 

Edited August 18 by HimalayanFollicle

[hair_forever]

In my opinion Eugenix should perform more homogeneous extractions throughout the donnor, instead of doing extractions that are too concentrated in the central part.

[Bandit90]

Appears to be a comparison going on between @general-etwan crown growth and mine. Though there are many physiological variables which could be compared. One major difference I notice is that General has opted for a high fade cut recently, therefore shaving into the lower crown area. Whereas I’ve purposely done a medium fade to enable my transplanted crown area to grow, non-stop since 3^rd sitting in Feb. I’ve certainly experienced that the crown hair requires a decent length for an illusion of density to kick-in, especially as the implanted density is way less than the hairline area.

I believe if my crown was at this length, I don’t think it would look that dis-similar to yours, I feel it is similar to what mine looked at before my 3rd sitting . But I do think SMP could be of great use in your journey, as your scalp/hair contrast is a tad on the higher side. My way of maxing out the illusion of density is to just grow it out and slick it back (but appreciate this maybe isn’t for you).

Anyway, my advice to you would be to temporarily rock a slick back, to take your mind off the crown area. In the meantime, let the remaining crown grafts pop through and more importantly get some good length on that crown hair… then re-evaluate in a few months!  

 

Edited August 19 by Bandit90

[general-etwan]

On 8/18/2024 at 5:49 PM, HimalayanFollicle said:

Even if they extracted grafts all the way 'up' to the sharp edge during the HT, they didn't transplant them all the way 'down' to the sharp edge. This is something I've noticed consistently across nearly all transplants performed at Eugenix. The boundary of the "horseshoe ring" might have risen over the past 5 months but on what basis would they anticipate that this will happen to you. 

Take @Bandit90's case, for example. Even there, you can see a gap between the extraction zone and the recipient area. There must be a solid reason for this approach, and it’s something I’ve been curious about for quite some time.

 

Yeah, in my opinion, the extraction went high enough (shouldn't go any higher due to high likelihood of DHT-thinning hair in future), so the thing up for debate is transplantation zone. I've seen some of Zarev's cases where he completely connects the extraction zone to the transplantation zone. In my case, I've always had a zone of thinning hair that is not totally gone yet. Dr. Sethi's explanation to me during HT #2 was that he won't transplant into that zone because he wants to avoid causing damage to the existing hair there and because the boundary will likely keep expanding anyway. But then if you return for additional transplants they will fill those areas, so I don't know why there is almost always a slight gap left untouched.

[general-etwan]

On 8/19/2024 at 9:18 AM, Bandit90 said:

Appears to be a comparison going on between @general-etwan crown growth and mine. Though there are many physiological variables which could be compared. One major difference I notice is that General has opted for a high fade cut recently, therefore shaving into the lower crown area. Whereas I’ve purposely done a medium fade to enable my transplanted crown area to grow, non-stop since 3^rd sitting in Feb. I’ve certainly experienced that the crown hair requires a decent length for an illusion of density to kick-in, especially as the implanted density is way less than the hairline area.

I believe if my crown was at this length, I don’t think it would look that dis-similar to yours, I feel it is similar to what mine looked at before my 3rd sitting . But I do think SMP could be of great use in your journey, as your scalp/hair contrast is a tad on the higher side. My way of maxing out the illusion of density is to just grow it out and slick it back (but appreciate this maybe isn’t for you).

Anyway, my advice to you would be to temporarily rock a slick back, to take your mind off the crown area. In the meantime, let the remaining crown grafts pop through and more importantly get some good length on that crown hair… then re-evaluate in a few months!  

 

Yeah looking back my barber may have trimmed up into the lower crown area with my most recent cut. Not sure why he would've thought that was a good idea to do. He's been very good on my cuts in the past. With my pattern, any fade on me should always be stopped at that rear boundary of donor area vs. lower crown and the entire crown kept longer. Next time I will make sure barber understands that, or I'll go somewhere else.

I plan to try out a styled-backward look soon but hair length isn't quite long enough yet and I need more weight to keep it down and not just flying straight up in the air.

[general-etwan]

Really not sure what is happening in the behind-the-temple areas that were just transplanted in HT #3 in March. Still shock loss 5 months later? It looked better a month ago.

 

1 month ago:

 

 

Edited August 20 by general-etwan

[baldDick666]

@general-etwan did you have a chance to describe those concerns with clinic (I mean not random online consultant repeating same not concrete formulas but any doctor) and heard back?

Interesting to know thair opinion.

Still keeping fingers crossed !!!!
Your transformation is reaaly great - and let's wait and make it hall of fame

[Berba11]

57 minutes ago, general-etwan said:

Really not sure what is happening in the behind-the-temple areas that were just transplanted in HT #3 in March. Still shock loss 5 months later? It looked better a month ago.

 

1 month ago:

 

 

I think you're massively over analysing every little detail at the moment. 5 months is barely past the beginning of the first round of growth post op #3, and presumably the hairs placed behind the temple point were finer hairs, which can take longer to pop and mature anyway.

[general-etwan]

10 minutes ago, baldDick666 said:

@general-etwan did you have a chance to describe those concerns with clinic (I mean not random online consultant repeating same not concrete formulas but any doctor) and heard back?

Interesting to know thair opinion.

Still keeping fingers crossed !!!!
Your transformation is reaaly great - and let's wait and make it hall of fame

No, not really…I mean what are they going to tell me that I’m not already aware of. Transplant was done, I’ve cared for it and for myself optimally, and so it either grows or it doesn’t. 😂 haha but I do have my 5 month check in with clinic this week so will inquire about what they think. 

[general-etwan]

10 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

I think you're massively over analysing every little detail at the moment. 5 months is barely past the beginning of the first round of growth post op #3, and presumably the hairs placed behind the temple point were finer hairs, which can take longer to pop and mature anyway.

Maybe so. Will try to be patient. 😩

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, general-etwan said:

Yeah, in my opinion, the extraction went high enough (shouldn't go any higher due to high likelihood of DHT-thinning hair in future), so the thing up for debate is transplantation zone. I've seen some of Zarev's cases where he completely connects the extraction zone to the transplantation zone. In my case, I've always had a zone of thinning hair that is not totally gone yet. Dr. Sethi's explanation to me during HT #2 was that he won't transplant into that zone because he wants to avoid causing damage to the existing hair there and because the boundary will likely keep expanding anyway. But then if you return for additional transplants they will fill those areas, so I don't know why there is almost always a slight gap left untouched.

To be fair, you’re comparing Eugenix lower package which is one third of the price of Zarev. The only surgeon I see fill in so close to the border is Zarev. Most surgeons avoid the borders when there is still hair because it can improve on meds, and because it can be disastrous if the native hair is damaged. 

I do think you need to tailor your expectations here. You got an excellent result at an affordable price. Are you going to get Zarev level of restoration? No, but then again you shouldn’t expect that. Overall, its a very successful outcome. It looks very good. If you want Zarev level of restoration that comes at a cost. 

[baldDick666]

54 minutes ago, general-etwan said:

haha but I do have my 5 month check in with clinic this week so will inquire about what they think

I think that the answer is gonne be this:

 

 

On 8/18/2024 at 12:17 PM, baldDick666 said:

"It all on track as per month (2/3/4/5/6/7whatever)"
"Be patient - full growth is after 12 months ... ([transalting to human readable] so do not bother us)"
"Everyone has different hair growth cycle ([transalting to human readable] so do not comapre to other(s) and do not bther us ... for sure you are slow grower :D)"
"Please continue taking medications ([transalting to human readable] probably slow growth is due to not taking 69 pills a day)"

 

[Melvin- Admin]

6 minutes ago, baldDick666 said:

Removed

This is an alt account. You have given yourself away. I know who you are. It's painfully obvious. Your alt account has been permanently suspended. If you want to post, use your main account, and if you create another alt account, both accounts will be suspended.

[general-etwan]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Admin said:

To be fair, you’re comparing Eugenix lower package which is one third of the price of Zarev. The only surgeon I see fill in so close to the border is Zarev. Most surgeons avoid the borders when there is still hair because it can improve on meds, and because it can be disastrous if the native hair is damaged. 

I do think you need to tailor your expectations here. You got an excellent result at an affordable price. Are you going to get Zarev level of restoration? No, but then again you shouldn’t expect that. Overall, its a very successful outcome. It looks very good. If you want Zarev level of restoration that comes at a cost. 

Of course, never comparing to that, but specifically thinking about growth from the 3rd HT here that seems to be lagging a bit. I won’t consider this 5 months situation a success so hoping this 3rd HT growth kicks in strong soon. 

[general-etwan]

2 hours ago, baldDick666 said:

I think that the answer is gonne be this:

lol well in all seriousness, the clinic isn’t going to tell me anything now that I don’t already know. That’s why I don’t really even reach out or ask. A doctor on the other side of the world isn’t going to have any info for me that I don’t already have on my own. I had the transplant done and either the hair will eventually grow or it won’t! I’m maximizing my care and health so there’s nothing more I can do on that end.

The only thing I could do is drop the pyrilutamide from Amazon on the basis that my hair looks works since starting to use it a few weeks ago. 🤷‍♂️

Edited August 20 by general-etwan

[4chanhrn]

25 minutes ago, general-etwan said:

The only thing I could do is drop the pyrilutamide from Amazon on the basis that my hair looks works since starting to use it a few weeks ago. 🤷‍♂️

Could be a shed? Maybe it wasn't a smart idea to add it, but maybe just stick with it since you've already added it.

[general-etwan]

26 minutes ago, 4chanhrn said:

Could be a shed? Maybe it wasn't a smart idea to add it, but maybe just stick with it since you've already added it.

Maybe, no idea. So many conflicting feelings on it now. I’m also going through it like crazy applying it to my entire head every day so not sure that I will continue forever but will keep for a while longer. 

[Fox243]

2 hours ago, general-etwan said:

No, not really…I mean what are they going to tell me that I’m not already aware of. Transplant was done, I’ve cared for it and for myself optimally, and so it either grows or it doesn’t. 😂 haha but I do have my 5 month check in with clinic this week so will inquire about what they think. 

fwiw, I would die to have your level of hair right now and I'm only 24 🤣

[GeneralNorwood]

On 8/18/2024 at 6:29 AM, general-etwan said:

@GeneralNorwood Interested to hear if you have any advice. I know you had specific disagreements with the design strategy along the way, of which many points were fair. Though, now I have had pretty much all areas covered with grafts, the 3rd procedure of which I designed largely myself or at least insisted on specific things I wanted to make sure I got full coverage. And I'm over 11,100 grafts.

However, it seems that the lower and side crown growth hasn't been good. The upper crown from the 1st procedure grew in quick and strong and has remained so. But the lower and side crown areas from HT #2 didn't seem to grow in as strongly, leading to my early push to have the 3rd 9.5 months after the 2nd, and at 5 months after #3 it still doesn't seem to be coming in very well. I don't understand why.

If you don't want to read past pages for details, I've been steady on finasteride since the 1st HT, 3 days a week up until a few months ago when I started it 6 days a week because I tolerate it well; loads of daily topical minoxidil (and just started oral minoxidil last week actually), and started this market-approved pyrilutamide a few weeks ago.

 

Well, as you remember i told you that pushing forward with temple points is not best idea, propably you understand now why.  You use more and more grafts over there and it's still not enough... There is one solution to that though... 

When you cut temple points shorter with machine, it looks like seperate block of hair. I have same situation. My advice is to grow temple points longer and see how it looks. When you visit barber tell him to not use hair trimmer on temple points, just skip this region. He can cut it with scissors from time to time, but not on every visit.

Good news is that lateral humps look so much better. So that's good that you instructed Sethi how to do surgery in this regard   I can't wait when my lateral humps will be treated... 

 

About crown work. You needed so many grafts there before 3rd surgery. Propably between 3500-4000 or even more. And how many you got? I guess maybe half of what was needed. Crown is a black hole, so we can wait some time more for the grow, but don't expect miracles. 

 

Edited August 24 by GeneralNorwood

[asterix0]

Yes, I think overall the transplant looks very good considering your starting point.

Could some areas be improved? Yes, but like other forum members mentioned, if you could get results as good as the top clinics with years of waiting lists and much higher prices, well this doctor would also be fully booked for years then and prices would correspondingly be higher.

The hair transplant market has become efficient. 

[general-etwan]

4 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Well, as you remember i told you that pushing forward with temple points is not best idea, propably you understand now why.  You use more and more grafts over there and it's still not enough... There is one solution to that though... 

When you cut temple points shorter with machine, it looks like seperate block of hair. I have same situation. My advice is to grow temple points longer and see how it looks. When you visit barber tell him to not use hair trimmer on temple points, just skip this region. He can cut it with scissors from time to time, but not on every visit.

Good news is that lateral humps look so much better. So that's good that you instructed Sethi how to do surgery in this regard   I can't wait when my lateral humps will be treated... 

 

About crown work. You needed so many grafts there before 3rd surgery. Propably between 3500-4000 or even more. And how many you got? I guess maybe half of what was needed. Crown is a black hole, so we can wait some time more for the grow, but don't expect miracles. 

 

Yeah, I understand temple work isn’t the wisest thing to do for many people. In my case though only a few hundred grafts were used there and from the nape of the neck and low on the neck that wouldn’t have been used for top-of-scalp transplantation anyway. And this light gap I have now *was* filled back in March, so either the growth is super slow coming in, and/or it caused shock loss to the native hair that was there. At least all the temple hair is appropriate and angled correctly. I just hope the March hairs grow in stronger soon. Not a huge deal, like you said can keep slightly longer…but the gaps were filled as I insisted and should be growing in. 

Yeah, lateral humps have made a good comeback.

I guess crown really is a black hole. Takes so many grafts, I just feel like the edges of my crown have come in better than the middle and lower area but just how it is. 

If there is to be one thinner place than all others, it’s natural for it to be crown I guess.

I could probably have another few thousand grafts used from my donor to further homogenize the whole head but really not interested in doing any more work at least not in the near future. I want to grow my hair longer and that takes a while.

 

Edited August 24 by general-etwan