My Journey - Consultations with Surgeons: Ahmad, Arocha, Bisanga, Bosley, De Freitas, Ilea, Laorwong, McGrath, Muresanu, Pittella, Zarev and more

[Gatsby]

Just now, FormerFutureKrillin said:

This 1000%. I had spent almost a year researching before my first surgery and I strongly believe if I had spent 6 more months researching beforehand, I probably would have made a different decision and been armed with more knowledge about HTs and the industry generally.

Something to be wary of is you will discover when you research that as you start to develop preferred / favorite surgeons, sometimes that makes you blind to problems and only seeing the positives because you have rosy tinted blinders on by good results that you desperately want for yourself. You may find yourself waving away or rationalizing negative information you find. It’s important to try and recognize that moment and that is the time to redouble on research and really try to ground yourself into making objective observations and well-informed decisions. 

Well said @FormerFutureKrillin. Exactly right! 👌

[CautiousResearcher]

5 hours ago, Gatsby said:

I say this because when you start researching you discover answers to questions that raise more questions. It's as if the more you know the more you realize what you don't know and so it goes on. The last thing you want is to have had surgery only to regret that you wish you had have held off and had it somewhere else for various reasons that you weren't aware of before you pulled the pin. Also if you are taking finasteride for example, it's best to give it 12 months to see what it can do, before planning on how many grafts you will need and where they are best placed. The problem is that MPB is a moving target over time and you want to get it right the first time. All the best!

So true!  Words of wisdom!  Thanks @Gatsby.  Helpful as always. 

[CautiousResearcher]

5 hours ago, FormerFutureKrillin said:

This 1000%. I had spent almost a year researching before my first surgery and I strongly believe if I had spent 6 more months researching beforehand, I probably would have made a different decision and been armed with more knowledge about HTs and the industry generally.

@CautiousResearcher something to be wary of is you will discover when you research that as you start to develop preferred / favorite surgeons, sometimes that makes you blind to problems and only seeing the positives because you have rosy tinted blinders on by good results that you desperately want for yourself. You may find yourself waving away or rationalizing negative information you find. It’s important to try and recognize that moment and that is the time to redouble on research and really try to ground yourself into making objective observations and well-informed decisions. 

This is such good advice, @FormerFutureKrillin.  Thanks for grounding me.  I think for all of us there’s definitely that blinding effect that can happen. We want to believe that we can get the desired results, get them soon, and our mind even subconsciously can start to reject/ignore any information that contradicts what we want to believe. 
 

thanks for that reminder. 

[ScottishGuy21]

7 hours ago, FormerFutureKrillin said:

This 1000%. I had spent almost a year researching before my first surgery and I strongly believe if I had spent 6 more months researching beforehand, I probably would have made a different decision and been armed with more knowledge about HTs and the industry generally.

@CautiousResearcher something to be wary of is you will discover when you research that as you start to develop preferred / favorite surgeons, sometimes that makes you blind to problems and only seeing the positives because you have rosy tinted blinders on by good results that you desperately want for yourself. You may find yourself waving away or rationalizing negative information you find. It’s important to try and recognize that moment and that is the time to redouble on research and really try to ground yourself into making objective observations and well-informed decisions. 

This is right on the money.
 

The mistake so many patients make is jumping in after a few months research thinking they are knowledgable enough to make the call. They subsequently post op continue to learn and look back with regret.

I compare it to starting a new job. After a few months you think you are picking things up and can do it. Fast forward 6 or 12 months and you look back and think jeez I was still so green

[Rawkerboi]

When I met Dr. Pradeep Sethi, he said " The patient must stay on medication for at least five years, and he must keep researching about hair transplants during that time."

So keep your good research on and don't be blind by good results shared.

 

[Berba11]

I’ll kill two birds with one stone here:

I don’t really see that Munib is two, three or four times superior than the options you mentioned. The idea that he’s €35K better than Hattingen or Bisanga is kind of ludicrous to me. Like I said previously, at this end of the HT market, we’re talking minor, minor differences in quality of work and patient care. 
 

Dr Ted’s plan sounds great. I’ve consulted with him and sat in on one of his surgeries on behalf of this forum. My judgement is that he’s excellent and I’d have no hesitation having surgery with him myself (ditto all the others on your list also). 
 

What I would say to you is… You’re not a complicated case. You have enough donor to meet your hairloss needs albeit those needs are in the NW5 range and will require a decent amount of grafts. You have some retrograde loss, meaning you need to be conservative and that may lend itself to FUT more so than FUE. You’ll likely get an excellent result from any of the options you’ve narrowed things down to. 

[CautiousResearcher]

5 hours ago, ScottishGuy21 said:

This is right on the money.
 

The mistake so many patients make is jumping in after a few months research thinking they are knowledgable enough to make the call. They subsequently post op continue to learn and look back with regret.

I compare it to starting a new job. After a few months you think you are picking things up and can do it. Fast forward 6 or 12 months and you look back and think jeez I was still so green

Good insight, @ScottishGuy21.  Thanks for that!

[CautiousResearcher]

5 hours ago, Rawkerboi said:

When I met Dr. Pradeep Sethi, he said " The patient must stay on medication for at least five years, and he must keep researching about hair transplants during that time."

So keep your good research on and don't be blind by good results shared.

 

Thanks, @Rawkerboi.  Yeah, I want to make sure I don't get blinded by focusing only on the good photos people post.  Easy to do that!

[SY7]

40 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

I’ll kill two birds with one stone here:

I don’t really see that Munib is two, three or four times superior than the options you mentioned. The idea that he’s €35K better than Hattingen or Bisanga is kind of ludicrous to me. Like I said previously, at this end of the HT market, we’re talking minor, minor differences in quality of work and patient care. 
 

Dr Ted’s plan sounds great. I’ve consulted with him and sat in on one of his surgeries on behalf of this forum. My judgement is that he’s excellent and I’d have no hesitation having surgery with him myself (ditto all the others on your list also). 
 

What I would say to you is… You’re not a complicated case. You have enough donor to meet your hairloss needs albeit those needs are in the NW5 range and will require a decent amount of grafts. You have some retrograde loss, meaning you need to be conservative and that may lend itself to FUT more so than FUE. You’ll likely get an excellent result from any of the options you’ve narrowed things down to. 

Exactly, personally I don’t seem to find too much difference between the results of a lot of the top doctors. Imo Bisanga en Fuegenix have extremely nice hairlines. The only guy who seems to have a different aproach is dr. Zarev? With no use of body hair and the donor area seems untouched after the procedure?

[MC117]

11 hours ago, Berba11 said:

I’ll kill two birds with one stone here:

I don’t really see that Munib is two, three or four times superior than the options you mentioned. The idea that he’s €35K better than Hattingen or Bisanga is kind of ludicrous to me. Like I said previously, at this end of the HT market, we’re talking minor, minor differences in quality of work and patient care. 
 

Dr Ted’s plan sounds great. I’ve consulted with him and sat in on one of his surgeries on behalf of this forum. My judgement is that he’s excellent and I’d have no hesitation having surgery with him myself (ditto all the others on your list also). 
 

What I would say to you is… You’re not a complicated case. You have enough donor to meet your hairloss needs albeit those needs are in the NW5 range and will require a decent amount of grafts. You have some retrograde loss, meaning you need to be conservative and that may lend itself to FUT more so than FUE. You’ll likely get an excellent result from any of the options you’ve narrowed things down to. 

I agree munib isn't worth that price at all (doesn't make sense), I didn't even know it was that expensive I thought he was in the 2-4 euros range lol 

[MC117]

10 hours ago, SY7 said:

Exactly, personally I don’t seem to find too much difference between the results of a lot of the top doctors. Imo Bisanga en Fuegenix have extremely nice hairlines. The only guy who seems to have a different aproach is dr. Zarev? With no use of body hair and the donor area seems untouched after the procedure?

100% agree with this. Zarev had the missing pieces and now has the gauntlet of infinity 🤣 with the 5 stones !

[Rawkerboi]

4 hours ago, MC117 said:

I agree munib isn't worth that price at all (doesn't make sense), I didn't even know it was that expensive I thought he was in the 2-4 euros range lol 

The only doctor worth the price is Dr. Zarev and he is €5 a graft. It only goes to €9 if you want to be bumped to the front of the rather long queue.

[SY7]

But what exactly different does he do though😂 only a smaller punch or a whole different aproach?

[MC117]

2 hours ago, Rawkerboi said:

The only doctor worth the price is Dr. Zarev and he is €5 a graft. It only goes to €9 if you want to be bumped to the front of the rather long queue.

100% 🤝

[MC117]

1 hour ago, SY7 said:

But what exactly different does he do though😂 only a smaller punch or a whole different aproach?

It's a whole process, that requires long hours of your personal time and energy on each patient. Think I sent a giant recap of what he does different in the @mtb's thread. You might need to dig haha !

[mr_peanutbutter]

4 minutes ago, MC117 said:

It's a whole process, that requires long hours of your personal time and energy on each patient. Think I sent a giant recap of what he does different in the @mtb's thread. You might need to dig haha !

his extraction technique is different imho

 

 

[MC117]

33 minutes ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

his extraction technique is different imho

 

 

It depends what you mean or include in that sentence. According to Dr.Zarev himself " the technology I use, in most cases, allows less traumatic extraction of grafts and , accordingly, extraction of a higher percentage". 

He crafted that tool for 10+ years and patents on the way. (Like I said in your thread when I uploaded that famous 12 hours photo).

But this extraction phase is inscribed in an overall bigger picture which is his protocol with a careful assessment of donor and recipient area prior to each operation.

"An assessment that few surgeons make, but is mandatory to achieve maximum results in relation to the capacity of each patient." 

That's all you need to know !

Edited July 6 by MC117

[Antonfarat]

Mate, for the price Ahmad quoted you for 2.5k grafts, you can get literally 4x more with Pitella. In one sitting (over 2 days). His results speak for himself.

Sht, scratch that. You’d literally get 2x more with Zarev at 9eur per graft haha. 
 

Ahmad pricing is out of order. 

[CautiousResearcher]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:14 AM, SY7 said:

Exactly, personally I don’t seem to find too much difference between the results of a lot of the top doctors. Imo Bisanga en Fuegenix have extremely nice hairlines. The only guy who seems to have a different aproach is dr. Zarev? With no use of body hair and the donor area seems untouched after the procedure?

Thanks foe that feedback @SY7.  Helpful to hear various perspectives. 
 

and, yes, Zarev seems like a magician.  Almost unreal (in a good way).

 

good to hear that you think Bisanga and Eugenix both have extremely nice hairlines. I’ve got a consult scheduled with Bisanga in a couple months. 

[CautiousResearcher]

22 hours ago, Rawkerboi said:

The only doctor worth the price is Dr. Zarev and he is €5 a graft. It only goes to €9 if you want to be bumped to the front of the rather long queue.

@Rawkerboi, so even for new patients Zarev’s price is €5/graft?  I was thinking it was €9/graft for everybody from here in out.  But you’re saying it’s only €9 of you want to skip the que?

 

I’d be all over €5/graft with Zarev (but I might be in the nursing home or dead by the time he gets to me 😂)

[CautiousResearcher]

8 hours ago, Antonfarat said:

Mate, for the price Ahmad quoted you for 2.5k grafts, you can get literally 4x more with Pitella. In one sitting (over 2 days). His results speak for himself.

Sht, scratch that. You’d literally get 2x more with Zarev at 9eur per graft haha. 
 

Ahmad pricing is out of order. 

Thanks for the feedback, @Antonfarat.

im in the waitlist for a consult with Pittella (roughly 90 days I think) and with Zarev (roughly 90 years 😂)

[CautiousResearcher]

On 7/5/2024 at 8:32 AM, Berba11 said:

I’ll kill two birds with one stone here:

I don’t really see that Munib is two, three or four times superior than the options you mentioned. The idea that he’s €35K better than Hattingen or Bisanga is kind of ludicrous to me. Like I said previously, at this end of the HT market, we’re talking minor, minor differences in quality of work and patient care. 
 

Dr Ted’s plan sounds great. I’ve consulted with him and sat in on one of his surgeries on behalf of this forum. My judgement is that he’s excellent and I’d have no hesitation having surgery with him myself (ditto all the others on your list also). 
 

What I would say to you is… You’re not a complicated case. You have enough donor to meet your hairloss needs albeit those needs are in the NW5 range and will require a decent amount of grafts. You have some retrograde loss, meaning you need to be conservative and that may lend itself to FUT more so than FUE. You’ll likely get an excellent result from any of the options you’ve narrowed things down to. 

Thanks for this insight, @Betba.  And sorry foe the delay— I read this sometime after you posted but then got distracted by some work issues and didn’t have time to post until tonight. 
 

This is very, very helpful perspective.

im def  I’m intent looking forward to in-person consults with Bisanga, Miln, and Muresanu.  And it’s nice to hear that you think at this end of the HT market we’re talking minor, minor differences in quality of work and patient care. That certainly makes the case for not paying €35,000 additional for Ahmad.  The counter case that some have made to me (in private messages), is that Ahmad is able to achieve an equal or superior result with far fewer grafts— and preserving those  donor hair without sacrificing results is worth the (quote extraordinary) premium in price. grafts.  I’m not making that argument myself, I’m just laying the two arguments side by side  

As a hypothetical, assuming that all four surgeons achieved the same visual result, but Ahmad did so with 2509 grafts, Bisanga with 3500, and Miln and Muresanu with 5,000, would you think Ahmad’s premium price be worth it in that case?  I ask, because some folks are saying it is.  
 

Thanks again for your insight.  Really helpful as I think things through.

 

i also am considering a consult with Ahmad, but given that it’s €1,000, I only want to do the consult if o think it’s possible that Ahmad is potentially worth the premium price over others  

 

 

 

[Berba11]

3 hours ago, CautiousResearcher said:

As a hypothetical, assuming that all four surgeons achieved the same visual result, but Ahmad did so with 2509 grafts, Bisanga with 3500, and Miln and Muresanu with 5,000, would you think Ahmad’s premium price be worth it in that case?  I ask, because some folks are saying it is

Without some evidence and explanation from Dr Munib explaining how he intends to achieve NW5 coverage with close to half the grafts as some other surgeons, and some examples from his portfolio that demonstrate this, I just can’t get on board with the hypothetical to begin with. 
 

I cannot conceive of a situation in which 2,500 grafts can achieve the same or better (given the price you’d be paying!) result than 5,000 grafts given your level of hair loss. That’s not a trivial difference in grafts, and I’d be seeing more value in paying less for more grafts and more of a guaranteed result. Dr Munib’s claim about making 2800 grafts look like 4000 is unsubstantiated as far as I’m concerned. 

[jjsrader]

Munib - he's his own 'hype man.'  Simple as.  Read between the lines and all his posts (especially more recently).  He's 'bolder' now and more confrontational along w/his boutique pricing scheme. 

We are all losing our hair and he ain't no magic man - a good surgeon w/an artistic eye - yes.  But you'd expect that from surgeons who are trained properly & dedicate themselves to their craft.

Konoir, Shapiro, Gabel, Cooley, Nadimi, C*le & several other U.S. surgeons are equally as artistic and get similar hair survival rates vis a vi FUE.

Munib pops in - hypes his best cases - plays 'take away' w/his pricing - negs his competition - then pops out.

Schmuck & frankly unprofessional. 

The fact he can do 2K+ grafts w/n a few hours also speaks to the fact that nothing he is doing is 'revolutionary' or 'ultra-custom' or meticulously slow & picky.  He does fine work for an accomplished surgeon at extraordinary prices and is laughing all the way to the bank at that.  Good on him - he's a good boy.

Grafts are grafts & when donor area is properly spaced out & implanted angles & graft direction are properly done w/high survivability - voila!  You have more hair in the recipient area.

But yea - pay him 45K for 2k-ish grafts - ahahahaha!!!

Edited July 7 by jjsrader

[NegativeNorwood]

It depends on your expectations. To me, the only one I've seen that gives 100% natural hairlines is Munib, and I wouldn't consider anyone else.

Just zoom in the pictures to see the hairline transition and graft placement, specially in patients with shorter hair. Compare it to people who don't have hairloss (zoom in pictures of people who's hair you like) and look at the hair placement and transitions, then compare that natural hairline to transplants.

Once you see it, there's no going back. All the doctors either implant in rows, put many multis in the front of the hairline (or too many singles angled too flat). That's if you can find a proper, high resolution picture to compare with, of course. It always looks either too thin (too many singles and sharp transition) or too thick (too many multis) compared to the native hair. The only one that gets this and produces hairlines like in nature is Munib. All the other doctors don't, regardless of reputation.

This may look like a small difference but is quite big in real life and all the walls and warts show up brutally when you cut your hair short.

If you don't mind this, just choose whoever is the cheapest of those doctors, there's not much difference between their work, regardless of reputation. But, if you care about it, only Munib can deliver the 100% natural result.

That's my opinion, hope it helps. Best luck with your journey!