Feedback on oral DUT

[UKLad81]

Hi Guys, I’ve just recently started DUT 0.5mg twice a week. Was previously on FIN for about a year and a half but found i was still losing hair. More recently I had a HT with Hattingen in the crown area and whilst the crown is growing in quite nicely, my sides seem to be dropping hence the jump to DUT. Was a bit of an instinctive thing and thought give it ago but at a low dose initially. The first dose i took and after a few hours i had some mild / dull ball ache which went the day after and continued with taking the 2nd dose a few days later (dosage was Sun & Weds). I did notice a week later a reduction in semen from previous weeks. I’m in my early 40s so not exactly a spring chicken in that dept but i have definitely noticed a difference down there. After 5 doses i’m seriously considering what i should do. I’ve tried Topical FIN & MIN from HIMs but noticed sides straight away so dropped that. This is when i started oral FIN and although the sides were there it wasn’t as bad as it is now

Any guidance from any of you?

 

[Big Rome]

I started oral DUT at twice a week initially after seeing DR Sergio Vano saying this is a good dose for no sides. I eventually upped it to 3 times a week. Low sperm, struggled to get & keep erections, libido shot to bits and the final straw was it gave me what looked to be BAD sebhorric derm all over my face, red and angry. That was the final straw for me, started around late July 2023 and had to come off October 23. Now taking topical fin/min 

[Eli_Avdikian]

I don't think there's much left to do if you had sides on virtually everythign (oral dut, oral fin, topical fin). Either stop treatment altogether, or give dut some more time for the sides to subside eventually

[alopie]

1 year oral finasteride is not enough to see results. It is highly unlikely that you are in the 5% of people that still lose ground on oral finasteride, there might be a vascularisation issue or something else appart from dht binding. My advice would be to use oral finasteride 1mg daily + oral minoxidil 3mg daily (if you can go to 5mg that would be great). Oral minoxidil saved a lot of lives.

[UKLad81]

5 hours ago, alopie said:

1 year oral finasteride is not enough to see results. It is highly unlikely that you are in the 5% of people that still lose ground on oral finasteride, there might be a vascularisation issue or something else appart from dht binding. My advice would be to use oral finasteride 1mg daily + oral minoxidil 3mg daily (if you can go to 5mg that would be great). Oral minoxidil saved a lot of lives.

Sorry I should’ve said in my initial comment that i had been on FIN starting in 2017 and then came off of it during covid due to real bad ball pain which lasted a few days. I restarted it last year around July. I might just drop the DUT altogether and go back on FIN and see how things go. Shame as i was hoping for some “magical” growth with DUT (i say that very loosely of course). 

Am already on 2.5mg Minox for over two years, i saw some initial minor thickening but will continue. 

[alopie]

1 minute ago, UKLad81 said:

Sorry I should’ve said in my initial comment that i had been on FIN starting in 2017 and then came off of it during covid due to real bad ball pain which lasted a few days. I restarted it last year around July. I might just drop the DUT altogether and go back on FIN and see how things go. Shame as i was hoping for some “magical” growth with DUT (i say that very loosely of course). 

Am already on 2.5mg Minox for over two years, i saw some initial minor thickening but will continue. 

I had the same experience with finasteride, testicular pain after 5 years, but it started when I added DUT to the mix. Now it's been better since I reduced the dose to 0.5mg and I am trying to go back to 0.8mg, or even 1mg daily. 
Regarding minoxidil, you can gradually up to 5mg, you will see thickening with every mg that you add, but it might not be worth it long term and it's frowned upon by cardiologists. I try to compensate with LLLT, multi-vitamins with saw-palmetto, dermaroller and nizoral 3x/week. These combined might improve the thickness of existing hairs, but not regain ground. However, the thickness is still important and it might give the appearance of a fuller head of hair!

[UKLad81]

9 minutes ago, alopie said:

I had the same experience with finasteride, testicular pain after 5 years, but it started when I added DUT to the mix. Now it's been better since I reduced the dose to 0.5mg and I am trying to go back to 0.8mg, or even 1mg daily. 
Regarding minoxidil, you can gradually up to 5mg, you will see thickening with every mg that you add, but it might not be worth it long term and it's frowned upon by cardiologists. I try to compensate with LLLT, multi-vitamins with saw-palmetto, dermaroller and nizoral 3x/week. These combined might improve the thickness of existing hairs, but not regain ground. However, the thickness is still important and it might give the appearance of a fuller head of hair!

Interesting, how are you getting on with all of your alternatives - LLLT and Dermroll (Are you using anything after you derma roll, a serum perhaps?). What vitamins are you taking, I’d be very interested to know?

[alopie]

52 minutes ago, UKLad81 said:

Interesting, how are you getting on with all of your alternatives - LLLT and Dermroll (Are you using anything after you derma roll, a serum perhaps?). What vitamins are you taking, I’d be very interested to know?

Hard to tell exactly which of these was most effective (LLLT/dermaroller/vitamins), but I definitely noticed thickening, and I think it is the diameter of the hairs that has been improved and not so much the hair count. I also use both topical (a few drops once daily 5%) and oral minoxidil (2.5mg).

My LLLT device is by Kiierr and it has 272 laser diodes, I use it 3x/week for 30 minutes.

My multivitamin complex is called Complidermol 5a plus and it is recommended by many top HT surgeons in Spain. It contains zinc, biotin, saw palmetto and some other extracts that attempt to block DHT pathways and increase hair thickness. My dermaroller is 1.5mm thick (cheap device off amazon) and I use it once per week, but you can actually use it 3x/week and do it lightly and apply topical minox 30 minutes later. It definitely increases minox absorption so you need to be careful not to overdo it (some people do not even apply topical minoxidil on the dermarolling day). Nizoral (ketoconazol 2%) shampoo is a pretty standard tool, and it is generally included in the Big 3. Just make sure you leave it on the scalp for 6-8 minutes when you have a shower, and make sure it is applied to the scalp and not just on the hair itself as that won't work. I use it 3x/week and use regular shampoos the rest of the days (you can try something with biotin and caffeine as a regular shampoo but the difference is negligible, if any). My understanding is that It is important to wash daily as you fight inflammation and the adjust the PH of the skin which otherwise assists DHT binding.
Nothing worked as effectively as 5mg oral minoxidil for hair thickness, but most cardiologists do not recommend this in the long run, so we have to come up with alternative solutions.

 

[alopie]

18 hours ago, UKLad81 said:

Interesting, how are you getting on with all of your alternatives - LLLT and Dermroll (Are you using anything after you derma roll, a serum perhaps?). What vitamins are you taking, I’d be very interested to know?

By the way, how did you deal with ball pain and how did you get rid of it? 

[UKLad81]

23 hours ago, alopie said:

Hard to tell exactly which of these was most effective (LLLT/dermaroller/vitamins), but I definitely noticed thickening, and I think it is the diameter of the hairs that has been improved and not so much the hair count. I also use both topical (a few drops once daily 5%) and oral minoxidil (2.5mg).

My LLLT device is by Kiierr and it has 272 laser diodes, I use it 3x/week for 30 minutes.

My multivitamin complex is called Complidermol 5a plus and it is recommended by many top HT surgeons in Spain. It contains zinc, biotin, saw palmetto and some other extracts that attempt to block DHT pathways and increase hair thickness. My dermaroller is 1.5mm thick (cheap device off amazon) and I use it once per week, but you can actually use it 3x/week and do it lightly and apply topical minox 30 minutes later. It definitely increases minox absorption so you need to be careful not to overdo it (some people do not even apply topical minoxidil on the dermarolling day). Nizoral (ketoconazol 2%) shampoo is a pretty standard tool, and it is generally included in the Big 3. Just make sure you leave it on the scalp for 6-8 minutes when you have a shower, and make sure it is applied to the scalp and not just on the hair itself as that won't work. I use it 3x/week and use regular shampoos the rest of the days (you can try something with biotin and caffeine as a regular shampoo but the difference is negligible, if any). My understanding is that It is important to wash daily as you fight inflammation and the adjust the PH of the skin which otherwise assists DHT binding.
Nothing worked as effectively as 5mg oral minoxidil for hair thickness, but most cardiologists do not recommend this in the long run, so we have to come up with alternative solutions.

 

Thanks my friend that helps. I might try and see if i can grab some of those vitamins. I’ll give nizarol a go, i already use Alpecin and have been using this for the last few years - seems like a gimmick but will add Nizarol in to the mix and see how things go.

I’m quite curious with this LLLT thing I’ve read more and more ppl using it but not entirely sure how effective it is. 

 

6 hours ago, alopie said:

By the way, how did you deal with ball pain and how did you get rid of it? 

When i first got the ball pain during covid times it was a little difficult as I couldn’t even sit on the sofa without the pain getting in the way. Had to manage it with pain killers and then ultimately my GP said get off of FIN and see how you go - went within a couple of days. In the last couple of weeks its been very dull kind of pain and was something i could just deal with by not doing anything if that makes sense - normally the day after it would go.