Dr Glenn Charles failed transplant opinion?

[Melvin- Admin]

Update,

 

Today, Dr. Charles informed us that an unidentified man wearing a motorcycle helmet and sunglasses came up to the front door of his residence Friday night and threatened him and his family if he “didn’t make things right on the website.” 

He is understandably concerned for his family. In light of the recent issues and developments, we have come to the mutual agreement that it is in Dr. Charles and his family's best interest that he withdraw his participation from this community. 

It is important to reiterate that we stand firmly against threats of violence and the use of this forum as a tool of coercion. We do not tolerate any attempts to extort excess conciliations from physicians, whether they are recommended or not. Posting negative reviews to coerce a refund violates our terms and conditions.

We thank him for his long-time support of this community, including his posts over many years, and wish him the best in resolving the issues brought forth in this topic and others. We hope there is an amicable solution for all parties involved.

In the future, he would like to compile and present compelling before-and-after results to re-establish his name in our community. 

After participants can voice their opinions and input, we will close this topic to further discussion.

 

Onwards and upwards,

 

Pat, Melvin, Valued Contributors 

[WolfCE]

I look forward to Dr. Charles commenting on my case on here.  It seems as though he talks in riddles and as others have stated in similar situations, makes me feel like i'm to blame and he can never be at fault. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, WolfCE said:

I look forward to Dr. Charles commenting on my case on here.  It seems as though he talks in riddles and as others have stated in similar situations, makes me feel like i'm to blame and he can never be at fault. 

He has stepped away from the forum and withdrawn his participation. I do not believe he will be posting here. However, he has said he will be speaking with his patients, so contact him personally. Do not expect to get responses here. You can report back what happens here. 

[WolfCE]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Admin said:

He has stepped away from the forum and withdrawn his participation. I do not believe he will be posting here. However, he has said he will be speaking with his patients, so contact him personally. Do not expect to get responses here. You can report back what happens here. 

 he keeps giving me the run around and makes me feel like an bad person for even questioning him... he's mad i posted and almost punishing me for it because he doesn't want to deal with me now. 

[andy_+_+]

Sorry about your poor result - I have to agree it doesn't look like 2000 grafts. The grafts also seem to be spaced out quite far. It would be easy to count the grafts just by applying a colour dot on each one. I know there was another poster in the past that did this using an app.

[4chanhrn]

On 7/28/2024 at 7:08 AM, Melvin- Admin said:

Dr. Charles has been performing surgery for 20+ years with a high degree of patient satisfaction. It’s true, there have been some recent dissatisfied patients. It’s our job to ask “what happened, what’s being done to correct it, and how can this be improved going forward.” Its fair to gather this information before making a decision. As for them recommending him, that’s a question they’ll have to answer when the review is complete. 

A doctor who has a sea of bad results on this forum and that none of the senior "valued contributors" on this forum would personally recommend should not be on the recommended list. Period. These recent poor results could very easily be avoided if the doctor was removed from the list in time.

I implore you to do a forum search:

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/search/?&q=glenn charles&type=forums_topic&page=1&quick=1&search_and_or=and&search_in=titles&sortby=newest

On 7/28/2024 at 7:08 AM, Melvin- Admin said:

For example, implanting or extracting grafts. There are very good surgeons who delegate various aspects of surgery. Im assuming thats what you mean by “low surgical involvement.” As long as the surgeon is involved in one of the three-part process. We do not recommend any surgeons that do not create the recipient sites. If you have a name give it to me. 

Since you are asking for names, I can start with 2 of "forum favorites" and that you have close association with.

H&W - 

Quote

Dr Hasson - 29 minutes in the room on day 1, and only about 16 minutes in the room on day 2

There are multiple reports of Dr. Hasson leaving the surgery early:

https://old.reddit.com/r/HairTransplants/comments/11bcoiw/after_some_very_thorough_research_and/j9zif7q/?context=3

Report of Wong admitting to techs operating on patients.

Dr. Arika - 

Quote

3 other surgeries were taking place and Dr Arika was in and out of all rooms.

less than 5minutes was spent assessing my hair and hairline 

By your own definition of what a hair mill is, would you not say these fit the description pretty well? If these reports are indeed true(and there's no reason to doubt them), does that not mean these doctors should be dropped from the list because they violate the guideline that you linked?

On 7/28/2024 at 7:08 AM, Melvin- Admin said:

The absence of patient reviews on this forum does not mean a doctor isn’t good or ethical. The presence of patient reviews doesn’t guarantee anything either. As you know, one patient can have one experience and someone else another. Patient reviews are only one metric for research. To discredit and invalidate a doctor because there hasn’t been a patient review here is not appropriate

Patient reviews and full patient journeys are important because there is no other way to accurately judge a doctor. There are 4 main issues with relying on doctor posted results:

1. They are cherry picked. Even if a doctor has atrocious hit rate for results, would you find any bad results on their website or Instagram? I can't find these bad results posted here on Glenn Charles' Instagram or website. Same with every other doctor.
2. They are sometimes completely fake.
3. They don't show surgical precision or lack there of. Lot of times a badly harvested donor  or other evidence of poorly performed surgery can be hidden or concealed. Most doctors don't provide good pictures showing all aspects of surgery.
4. We do not get to see bad practices and red flags(like ones highlighted above), that eventually lead to poor patient outcomes.

This is the value that a forum like this brings. Otherwise there would be no value to a forum like this and we would all be judging a doctor by Instagram pictures.

On 7/28/2024 at 7:08 AM, Melvin- Admin said:

We are talent scouts, we scout known and unknown ethical doctors doing quality work, that we feel will be solid options for our community. At one point, every surgeon on the list was unknown to the forum world. They became known on this forum

At the end of the day, everyone must do their own due diligence and choose surgeons based on their merits and their research

I agree. I have acknowledged that talent scouting is valuable work that you do.

Quote

Having said that, it doesn’t mean we will be ruled by a few anonymous posters whose motives are unknown. As seen on Reddit, interests and motives run rampant. Why is this anonymous poster so invested? Yet unwilling to disclose any details about themselves or their background/experience. That’s something we have to question.

Melvin you have my email address(with a business domain) tied to my account. You can very easily do a Google search and verify that I'm a real person with no ties with anyone in the HT industry and I'm definitely not getting paid by anyone. It takes 30 seconds. To that end, casting false aspersions is distasteful. This is one of several forums that I post to. I simply would rather choose to post elsewhere instead of getting attacked for pointing out what I view to be poor practices in the industry. My time/energy is too valuable spent defending myself. To that end, this will be my last post on HRN.

Edited July 30 by 4chanhrn
Removed outside likk

[Melvin- Admin]

35 minutes ago, 4chanhrn said:

A doctor who has a sea of bad results on this forum for a very long time(not just recently) and that none of the senior "valued contributors" on this forum would personally recommend should not be on the recommended list. Period. These recent poor results could very easily be avoided if the doctor was removed from the list in time.

I implore you to do a forum search and filter for doctor posted results:

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/search/?&q=glenn charles&page=1&quick=1&author=!66657-dr-glenn-charles&search_and_or=or&search_in=titles&sortby=relevancy

Since you are asking for names, I can start with 2 of "forum favorites" and that you have close association with.

H&W - 

There are multiple reports of Dr. Hasson leaving the surgery early:

 

Dr. Arika - 

By your own definition of what a hair mill is, would you not say these fit the description pretty well? If these reports are indeed true(and there's no reason to doubt them), does that not mean these doctors should be dropped from the list because they violate the guideline that you linked?

Patient reviews and full patient journeys are important because there is no other way to accurately judge a doctor. There are 4 main issues with relying on doctor posted results:

1. They are cherry picked. Even if a doctor has atrocious hit rate for results, would you find any bad results on their website or Instagram? I can't find these bad results posted here on Glenn Charles' Instagram or website. Same with every other doctor.
2. They are sometimes completely fake.
3. They don't show surgical precision or lack there of. Lot of times a badly harvested donor  or other evidence of poorly performed surgery can be hidden or concealed. Most doctors don't provide good pictures showing all aspects of surgery.
4. We do not get to see bad practices and red flags(like ones highlighted above), that eventually lead to poor patient outcomes.

This is the value that a forum like this brings. Otherwise there would be no value to a forum like this and we would all be judging a doctor by Instagram pictures.

I agree. I have acknowledged that talent scouting is valuable work that you do.

Melvin you have my email address(with a business domain) tied to my account. You can very easily do a Google search and verify that I'm a real person with no ties with anyone in the HT industry and I'm definitely not getting paid by anyone. It takes 30 seconds. To that end, casting false aspersions is distasteful. This is one of several forums that I post to. I simply would rather choose to post elsewhere instead of getting attacked for pointing out what I view to be poor practices in the industry. My time/energy is too valuable spent defending myself. To that end, this will be my last post on HRN.

A hair mill by definition is a clinic with no doctor oversight. It’s all technician-led. All surgeons have poor results.

Every clinic has poor results, literally every single clinic. There is not one clinic that you can’t pull similar threads. How they deal with these issues is what matters the most. Nordster34 ended up happy, though some users still didn’t like the temples, that’s subjective. 

Obviously, patient reviews are important just like before and after photos, but it is not the only metric you should be looking at, why? Because I can easily pull up 2-3 reviews from those same doctors that are positive around the same time frame. My point is, experiences can vary, even with the same surgeons. Patient reviews is only metric for research. The absence of reviews doesn’t automatically make a surgeon a bad option. 

I’m sorry if my post offended you, I didn’t mean you had any ties, it was in general. I would like to continue this dialogue. I am all for improvements. If you would like you can create a separate thread, maybe others would like to chime in. I hope this isn’t your last post, I was not attacking you, merely responding to your posts. 

[Alex27O]

How much involvement should a surgeon have during the physical surgery? I understand a fair amount of surgeons simply make the incision markers while the techs implant the actual follicles.

[Al - Moderator]

7 hours ago, 4chanhrn said:

Melvin you have my email address(with a business domain) tied to my account. You can very easily do a Google search and verify that I'm a real person with no ties with anyone in the HT industry and I'm definitely not getting paid by anyone. It takes 30 seconds. To that end, casting false aspersions is distasteful. This is one of several forums that I post to. I simply would rather choose to post elsewhere instead of getting attacked for pointing out what I view to be poor practices in the industry. My time/energy is too valuable spent defending myself. To that end, this will be my last post on HRN.

 

I don't think he was meaning you in particular. It was a general comment about anyone who posts here saying they had a bad experience with a Dr but doesn't want to post pictures or it's their first post, so we have no idea if they have an agenda or not. We can't remove Drs just because someone decides to come here and say something negative about one of our Drs. We have had this in the past where representatives of a clinic would make up stories about unsatisfied patients from some of our Drs with no proof whatsoever that any of it was true. We can't remove Drs just because one or two people make a few posts. 

 

[Alex27O]

47 minutes ago, Al - Moderator said:

 

I don't think he was meaning you in particular. It was a general comment about anyone who posts here saying they had a bad experience with a Dr but doesn't want to post pictures or it's their first post, so we have no idea if they have an agenda or not. We can't remove Drs just because someone decides to come here and say something negative about one of our Drs. We have had this in the past where representatives of a clinic would make up stories about unsatisfied patients from some of our Drs with no proof whatsoever that any of it was true. We can't remove Drs just because one or two people make a few posts. 

 

I 100% agree that it isn’t right to remove doctors especially if it’s only a couple of bad cases. However, when do we come to a point where it’s obvious that a doctor shouldn’t be recommended anymore? We should take the severity of the poor cases into account and how he/she responds to them.

We all want great results and nobody deserves a poor surgery but a lot of money and well-being can be spent on a surgery and a bad result can really damage someone’s image. That’s why it’s important that we filter the bad surgeons from the good ones.

Edited July 30 by Alex27O

[Berba11]

7 hours ago, 4chanhrn said:

A doctor who has a sea of bad results on this forum and that none of the senior "valued contributors" on this forum would personally recommend should not be on the recommended list. Period. These recent poor results could very easily be avoided if the doctor was removed from the list in time.

You have to bear in mind that the "valued contributors" board who oversee the recommendation list was only established in February, meaning that virtually every surgeon on the list currently was there prior to February (with the exception of Dr Ted, whose clinic I personally attended and sat in on a session in my own time on behalf of the HRN as part of the research and scouting process). Speaking for myself only, Dr Charles wasn't someone that I knew much about at all and there's been some "catching up" to do on his previous work and so forth, and lots of carefully considered discussion about the situation and Melvin has been speaking with the surgeon himself as well.

Other names have also been mentioned both as potential recommendations but also where issues have cropped up and a situation is being monitored and is known to us. Feedback (critical in nature) that I had drafted was relayed to a surgeon a couple of months ago, for example. No process is going to be perfect, and no decisions are taken lightly or in haste.

This won't satiate those baying for blood who want to see surgeons canned yesterday, but Melvin implemented change to the way things are done in February and there's already been a lot of positives from that which will (hopefully!) become more apparent in time.

[Berba11]

12 minutes ago, Alex27O said:

when do we come to a point where it’s obvious that a doctor shouldn’t be recommended anymore?

There's no concrete answer or metric here, but this is something we've discussed internally and when a pattern of poor practice is evident or brought to our attention, we review and discuss the situation about how to proceed (which will always involve discussion with the surgeon in question) and go from there. These can often be delicate situations that require care and time.

Bear in the mind that the overall standard of surgeon on the recommended list (99.9% of which predates the recommendations consul) is very high, so there will very rarely be cases where it's "obvious" that a surgeon shouldn't recommended. Issues usually manifest and come to light over time and then there's conversations that need to be had from there.

[OliverAtom]

12 hours ago, Alex27O said:

I 100% agree that it isn’t right to remove doctors especially if it’s only a couple of bad cases. However, when do we come to a point where it’s obvious that a doctor shouldn’t be recommended anymore? We should take the severity of the poor cases into account and how he/she responds to them.

We all want great results and nobody deserves a poor surgery but a lot of money and well-being can be spent on a surgery and a bad result can really damage someone’s image. That’s why it’s important that we filter the bad surgeons from the good ones.

I completely agree with Alex. Really important to filter bad from good surgeons. This would help lots of people from choosing a bad clinic. When you are completely new and desperate, any shiny website with good prices might make the cut 😟

[Paul_]

On 7/31/2024 at 1:28 AM, Berba11 said:

There's no concrete answer or metric here, but this is something we've discussed internally and when a pattern of poor practice is evident or brought to our attention, we review and discuss the situation about how to proceed (which will always involve discussion with the surgeon in question) and go from there. These can often be delicate situations that require care and time.

Bear in the mind that the overall standard of surgeon on the recommended list (99.9% of which predates the recommendations consul) is very high, so there will very rarely be cases where it's "obvious" that a surgeon shouldn't recommended. Issues usually manifest and come to light over time and then there's conversations that need to be had from there.

This is a very sensible solution, to have this senior peers/contributors review. Thanks for putting in the additional work on this

Only additional thing I'd suggest going forward is to have a yearly check with the recommended surgeons based on a few challenging cases they submit themselves, to incentivize them to keep to that standard of quality. This should hopefully preempt such discussions as above, and give clear references if their results are called into question by anyone

Edited August 1 by Paul_

[4chanhrn]

I had a chat with Melvin and he better explained the process, the changes they are making and some insights I was not aware of. I think the quality of the list should greatly improve going forward. I do apologize for being impulsive. I was clouded by emotions of seeing what I thought as a preventable bad result. I don't think bringing out the pitchforks helps anyone, or was the right thing to do. I hope the changes being made means that it does not happen again.

Edited August 2 by 4chanhrn

[Steeeve]

12 hours ago, 4chanhrn said:

I think the quality of the list should greatly improve going forward. 

I agree. 

[WolfCE]

I saw Dr Charles and he seemed very nervous.... He (finally) agreed that the result was bad and offered me a free surgery... of course I refused, he couldn't even look me in the eye when I asked him about the graft count

he mentioned that he’s going to spend more time on my surgery to make sure it works and something about using stem cells...

i find it interesting that he said he would spend "extra time" given he's as expensive as he is, don't all of his patients deserve 100% every time? Makes me feel like he openly admits he doesn't give 100% to his patients unless there is a problem, and he needs to fix it... but he charges us like he's a top tier surgeon... very odd and frankly unethical. 

Edited August 29 by WolfCE
added missing context

[Steeeve]

18 hours ago, WolfCE said:

I saw Dr Charles and he seemed very nervous.... He (finally) agreed that the result was bad and offered me a free surgery... of course I refused, he couldn't even look me in the eye when I asked him about the graft count

he mentioned that he’s going to spend more time on my surgery to make sure it works and something about using stem cells...

i find it interesting that he said he would spend "extra time" given he's as expensive as he is, don't all of his patients deserve 100% every time? Makes me feel like he openly admits he doesn't give 100% to his patients unless there is a problem, and he needs to fix it... but he charges us like he's a top tier surgeon... very odd and frankly unethical. 

Do you have a plan yet for how you would like to move forward? Have you chosen a doctor? I really hope you get this worked out soon.

[WolfCE]

53 minutes ago, Steeeve said:

Do you have a plan yet for how you would like to move forward? Have you chosen a doctor? I really hope you get this worked out soon.

thank you, i honestly don't really know.... it's not like i'm rich and can afford these expensive surgeries on a whim... i'm kind of gutted that i spent so much money on this respected surgeon that claimed to be the best, basically admitted to me he didn't even care to try to do a good job on my surgery and now if i let him do it again, he'll "really" try hard to give me a good result this time.... my head almost exploded. I'm kind of upset with this forum for recommending him too to be honest... he shouldn't be doing this if he's charging people that much and not trying to give them good results...  at this point from all the stories i'm hearing he's offering more free surgeries than paid ones and not a single person is accepting... imagine a "world famous" hair surgeon not being able to give away free surgeries to patients that have actually experienced his work.

[WolfCE]

On 7/29/2024 at 12:12 PM, Melvin- Admin said:

Update,

 

Today, Dr. Charles informed us that an unidentified man wearing a motorcycle helmet and sunglasses came up to the front door of his residence Friday night and threatened him and his family if he “didn’t make things right on the website.” 

He is understandably concerned for his family. In light of the recent issues and developments, we have come to the mutual agreement that it is in Dr. Charles and his family's best interest that he withdraw his participation from this community. 

It is important to reiterate that we stand firmly against threats of violence and the use of this forum as a tool of coercion. We do not tolerate any attempts to extort excess conciliations from physicians, whether they are recommended or not. Posting negative reviews to coerce a refund violates our terms and conditions.

We thank him for his long-time support of this community, including his posts over many years, and wish him the best in resolving the issues brought forth in this topic and others. We hope there is an amicable solution for all parties involved.

In the future, he would like to compile and present compelling before-and-after results to re-establish his name in our community. 

After participants can voice their opinions and input, we will close this topic to further discussion.

 

Onwards and upwards,

 

Pat, Melvin, Valued Contributors 

I have a question about this.... Was dr. Charles going to be removed regardless?   If so, was he notified he was going to be removed?  If so, was this masked vigilante story before or after he was notified of his removal?

[Legend007]

If i were you, you have to look forward to a new plan. And not have anger towards the clinic . Bad hair transplant happens, it is never going to be as great as you hoped.. 

when you are done grieving over the problem,  your mind will be more open to a solution.. because lets face it.. unless he totally damaged you, injured you out of negligence, there is no recourse of action other than complaining and making others dislike them for not giving you a good result.. that wont last top long, best to either get the free touchup, or kindly negotiate for half your money back so you can get treatment somewhere else.. n only if their offer still stands, cuz in the end, they dont need to make that offer.. whos going take away their license or force them to refund you.. there is no official government department that acts on our behalf for bad cosmetic surgery.. 

 

[Jamos1982]

On 7/30/2024 at 2:12 AM, Melvin- Admin said:

Update,

 

Today, Dr. Charles informed us that an unidentified man wearing a motorcycle helmet and sunglasses came up to the front door of his residence Friday night and threatened him and his family if he “didn’t make things right on the website.” 

He is understandably concerned for his family. In light of the recent issues and developments, we have come to the mutual agreement that it is in Dr. Charles and his family's best interest that he withdraw his participation from this community. 

It is important to reiterate that we stand firmly against threats of violence and the use of this forum as a tool of coercion. We do not tolerate any attempts to extort excess conciliations from physicians, whether they are recommended or not. Posting negative reviews to coerce a refund violates our terms and conditions.

We thank him for his long-time support of this community, including his posts over many years, and wish him the best in resolving the issues brought forth in this topic and others. We hope there is an amicable solution for all parties involved.

In the future, he would like to compile and present compelling before-and-after results to re-establish his name in our community. 

After participants can voice their opinions and input, we will close this topic to further discussion.

 

Onwards and upwards,

 

Pat, Melvin, Valued Contributors 

This bikie story is laughable who would actually believe this crap. This is just a way for Charles to save face by saying I only left hrn cause bikies were after me not cause my work has been below par for years. Nice try