Topical Fin/Dut - Does it work? Patient rep of a known doctor has said it is a waste of time and money

[xabi86]

Hi all,

Need some advice please.

I have used fin tablets before and got sides. So I switched to topical fin from Parati 0.01% but I am not seeing great results I have to say. Maybe too low concentration I don't know. Before going to 0.01% Parati I tried Hims spray which had 0.25% fin and I did get sides with that as well. So I switched to Parati at 0.01% fin.

In addition, I have been told by a patient rep of a well known doctor in EU that using topical meds is a waste of money and time and that has got me concerned. He has suggested using Dutasteride tablets but I am hesitant and want to know if topical fin/dut has not worked at all for other people here on this forum.

Should I switch to Dutasteride tabs (worried about sides as I got them on oral fin)?

Does topical fin/dut work?

Or should I switch to topical dut?

[Melvin- Admin]

It works, look at my thread. There’s plenty of studies that shows it works. Denying this is nonsense. 

[Gatsby]

2 hours ago, xabi86 said:

Hi all,

Need some advice please.

I have used fin tablets before and got sides. So I switched to topical fin from Parati 0.01% but I am not seeing great results I have to say. Maybe too low concentration I don't know. Before going to 0.01% Parati I tried Hims spray which had 0.25% fin and I did get sides with that as well. So I switched to Parati at 0.01% fin.

In addition, I have been told by a patient rep of a well known doctor in EU that using topical meds is a waste of money and time and that has got me concerned. He has suggested using Dutasteride tablets but I am hesitant and want to know if topical fin/dut has not worked at all for other people here on this forum.

Should I switch to Dutasteride tabs (worried about sides as I got them on oral fin)?

Does topical fin/dut work?

Or should I switch to topical dut?

@xabi86 I got sexual side effects from finasteride both orally and topically at 0.25%. I'm seeing my dermatologist in a couple of months and I will be seeing if I can try topical finasteride at a much lower dose (at least 0.1%) or maybe even topical dutasteride. All the best.

[arthurSam]

Topical fin induce about +20 hairs and about 34% dht reduction in blood using 0.1% on a 400 people trial dated in pubmed from 2023 but using alcohol vehicle. You are using parati formulation wich is siliconed liposomal. For this kind of vehicle, you should use 2,5% for finasteride or 2% for dut. All my best.

Edited August 9 by arthurSam

[xabi86]

7 hours ago, arthurSam said:

Topical fin induce about +20 hairs and about 34% dht reduction in blood using 0.1% on a 400 people trial dated in pubmed from 2023 but using alcohol vehicle. You are using parati formulation wich is siliconed liposomal. For this kind of vehicle, you should use 2,5% for finasteride or 2% for dut. All my best.

@arthurSamthank you for your response.

can you recommend from where I can get 0.1% fin but alcohol vehicle please or even dut?

i’m based in London. 
 

Parati only do liposomal gel as you’d know. They don’t do 2,5% fin their highest concentration is 0.25% fin.

Thanks

[arthurSam]

Hello,

For alcohol based véhicule just ask to your doc a prescription and ask in a pharmacy to make it.

 

Edited August 10 by arthurSam

[Big Rome]

On 8/9/2024 at 12:15 AM, xabi86 said:

Hi all,

Need some advice please.

I have used fin tablets before and got sides. So I switched to topical fin from Parati 0.01% but I am not seeing great results I have to say. Maybe too low concentration I don't know. Before going to 0.01% Parati I tried Hims spray which had 0.25% fin and I did get sides with that as well. So I switched to Parati at 0.01% fin.

In addition, I have been told by a patient rep of a well known doctor in EU that using topical meds is a waste of money and time and that has got me concerned. He has suggested using Dutasteride tablets but I am hesitant and want to know if topical fin/dut has not worked at all for other people here on this forum.

Should I switch to Dutasteride tabs (worried about sides as I got them on oral fin)?

Does topical fin/dut work?

Or should I switch to topical dut?

Low dose Oral Dut gave me sides & I had to quit the medication unfortunately

[xabi86]

5 hours ago, xabi86 said:

@arthurSamthank you for your response.

can you recommend from where I can get 0.1% fin but alcohol vehicle please or even dut?

i’m based in London. 
 

Parati only do liposomal gel as you’d know. They don’t do 2,5% fin their highest concentration is 0.25% fin.

Thanks

Hey @arthurSam

please clarify if 0.25% fin is the same as 2,5% as in the same concentration?

[arthurSam]

7 hours ago, xabi86 said:

Hey @arthurSam

please clarify if 0.25% fin is the same as 2,5% as in the same concentration?

Hi,

Standard Xyon / Parati concentration are 2.5% for finasteride. But you can take lower if you prefer, of course !

 

Look here for parati : https://www.blogcalvizie.it/finasteride-gel-al-2-5-una-soluzione-della-farmacia-parati/

 

The concentration depend of the vehicle used in the product because the pharmacodynamics of the drug delivery depends on the vehicle.

If you use a different vehicule, like alchool / trichosol, then FueCLinic for example advice to take 0.025% 3x/week to start. But if you want to take 0.25% it's your choice, you can try if your doc prescribed it - he is the one who know what to do.

There are also other topical finasteride as gel like hims wich seems based on another concentration, I think it's 0.3%.

Edited August 10 by arthurSam

[xabi86]

12 hours ago, arthurSam said:

Hi,

Standard Xyon / Parati concentration are 2.5% for finasteride. But you can take lower if you prefer, of course !

 

Look here for parati : https://www.blogcalvizie.it/finasteride-gel-al-2-5-una-soluzione-della-farmacia-parati/

 

The concentration depend of the vehicle used in the product because the pharmacodynamics of the drug delivery depends on the vehicle.

If you use a different vehicule, like alchool / trichosol, then FueCLinic for example advice to take 0.025% 3x/week to start. But if you want to take 0.25% it's your choice, you can try if your doc prescribed it - he is the one who know what to do.

There are also other topical finasteride as gel like hims wich seems based on another concentration, I think it's 0.3%.

Hi @arthurSam

sorry buddy but the question I had is, is 0.25% from Parati the same as 2,5% but written differently? That is my question that is that the same or not.

thanks

[arthurSam]

27 minutes ago, xabi86 said:

Hi @arthurSam

sorry buddy but the question I had is, is 0.25% from Parati the same as 2,5% but written differently? That is my question that is that the same or not.

thanks

No it's not the same. 2.5% is 10x more 

[xabi86]

21 minutes ago, arthurSam said:

No it's not the same. 2.5% is 10x more 

Thanks mate. I’ve reached out to Parati to ask if they can give me the 2,5%. Let’s see what they say.

[Eli_Avdikian]

On 8/9/2024 at 2:17 AM, Melvin- Admin said:

It works, look at my thread. There’s plenty of studies that shows it works. Denying this is nonsense. 

Rogaine fared very well in its initial 6-month trials. But who swears by topical minoxidil nowadays? Almost all dermatologists and hair transplant doctors are moving away from it and started prescribing oral minoxidil instead. We have come a long way since and discovered (through another study) that its efficacy wanes after 1 one year, and that only 20-25% of it is actually absorbed in the scalp, and that only 40-50 of people have the sulfotransferase enzymes in their hair follicles, etc. The Polichem topical finasteride trials "proved" that the former is comprable in efficacy to its oral counterpart. Almost no one on italian forums had any success with it, and it turned out that its delivery system is very flawed since it comes with a "cone" spray system that can potentially work only on shaven hair. All this to say that because a topical drug fares well in a given study doesn't mean that it works for the majority of people. The story is quite different when it comes to oral 5AR inhibitor drugs, which work for 90% of people.

Edited August 11 by Eli_Avdikian

[arthurSam]

11 hours ago, xabi86 said:

Thanks mate. I’ve reached out to Parati to ask if they can give me the 2,5%. Let’s see what they say.

This should not be a problem, I already ordered 2.5% fin and 2% dut to them

Edited August 11 by arthurSam

[xabi86]

1 minute ago, arthurSam said:

This should not be a problem, I already ordered 2.5% fin and 2% dut to them

Did you have to get prescription for 2,5% fin? Who did you get it from?

thanks

[arthurSam]

Just now, xabi86 said:

Did you have to get prescription for 2,5% fin? Who did you get it from?

thanks

My dermatologist 

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, Eli_Avdikian said:

Rogaine fared very well in its initial 6-month trials. But who swears by topical minoxidil nowadays? Almost all dermatologists and hair transplant doctors are moving away from it and started prescribing oral minoxidil instead. We have come a long way since and discovered (through another study) that its efficacy wanes after 1 one year, and that only 20-25% of it is actually absorbed in the scalp, and that only 40-50 of people have the sulfotransferase enzymes in their hair follicles, etc. The Polichem topical finasteride trials "proved" that the former is comprable in efficacy to its oral counterpart. Almost no one on italian forums had any success with it, and it turned out that its delivery system is very flawed since it comes with a "cone" spray system that can potentially work only on shaven hair. All this to say that because a topical drug fares well in a given study doesn't mean that it works for the majority of people. The story is quite different when it comes to oral 5AR inhibitor drugs, which work for 90% of people.

Finasteride and dutasteride are proven treatments. If you’re claiming that it doesn’t absorb, that’s been rubbished. It absorbs and does reduce systemic DHT. But at a lesser degree. Topical and oral minoxidil work, it’s the same thing. Obviously oral works better, but comes with more sides.

 

[Eli_Avdikian]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Finasteride and dutasteride are proven treatments. If you’re claiming that it doesn’t absorb, tha’s been rubbished. It absorbs and does reduce systemic DHT. But at a lesser degree. Topical and oral minoxidil work, it’s the same thing. Obviously oral works better, but comes with more sides.

"Absorb" is very ambiguous. If by "it absorbs" we mean that it enters the blood stream, then this is quite irrelevant, even though it happens often, and to a large degree with most topical drugs with a relatively "small" molecular weight since the scalp is very vascular. If topical finasteride decreases serum DHT by 35% for example, then this is not as significant as it is thought to be since DHT fluctuates anyway by 20% regardeless of 5AR inhibitors due to natural diurnal variations. 

What matters the most is the retention of molecule in the dermal papilla, where it would do its magic, and none of the studies measure this unfortuantely.

Moreover, as my Polichem study example suggests, topical finasteride was applied to shaven scalps. How could you realistically reproduce this on long hair, with a cone, or a spray applicator, while being consistent with the dose, and insuring that it reaches your scalp entirely (without mentioning the complexity caused by the difference in scalp perosity among people, and the thickness of the stratum corneum etc)

[Melvin- Admin]

13 hours ago, Eli_Avdikian said:

"Absorb" is very ambiguous. If by "it absorbs" we mean that it enters the blood stream, then this is quite irrelevant, even though it happens often, and to a large degree with most topical drugs with a relatively "small" molecular weight since the scalp is very vascular. If topical finasteride decreases serum DHT by 35% for example, then this is not as significant as it is thought to be since DHT fluctuates anyway by 20% regardeless of 5AR inhibitors due to natural diurnal variations. 

What matters the most is the retention of molecule in the dermal papilla, where it would do its magic, and none of the studies measure this unfortuantely.

Moreover, as my Polichem study example suggests, topical finasteride was applied to shaven scalps. How could you realistically reproduce this on long hair, with a cone, or a spray applicator, while being consistent with the dose, and insuring that it reaches your scalp entirely (without mentioning the complexity caused by the difference in scalp perosity among people, and the thickness of the stratum corneum etc)

A member here tested his DHT and it dropped by 48%. Applying it topically reduces your DHT systemically. Finasteride and dutasteride work, so there’s no questioning the drug. It’s not like it’s some new thing. It’s literally just like minoxidil. It works topically and orally. But more effective orally for obvious reasons. You keep referring to one Italian study when there have been numerous studies. 
 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37798906/